Baseball America #2 system

[Explosivo]

Again, this place can complain about winning the lottery. Truly pathetic responses from the same folks over and over. They are like those little whiny baby dolls. Keep pulling the string and keep saying the same “wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh” statements. 
 

we have gone from near bottom to number two in 3 years. We have the number one prospect in baseball. We have the number one pitching prospect in baseball. We have a 19 year old in the top 100. Westburg is having a player of the year type season and is already at AA. I’d say we are firing on all cylinders, building a solid foundation to rinse and repeat with huge amounts of competition down at the farm to push these guys even more and we are building a massive window of opportunity at the major league level. Do you guys honestly think they only take the top 100 to form their rankings? We’ve got tons of guys they may not be in the top 100 but are certainly in a top 250 if they had one. Look at our talent level at AA and AAA for example if you need your hand held. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Explosivo

[BohKnowsBmore]

3 hours ago, waynebug said:

Keith Law said #18 in February.  Very top heavy system.  Obviously the system is acquiring hitters while ignoring pitchers.

I always said people believe what they want to believe.  

 

 

Hasn't the standard "yeah but" on the O's minors been that they're improving with respect to depth, but that they're missing some of the high-impact guys at the top that other systems have?

 

Hard to keep up sometimes.

[7Mo]

21 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Hard to keep up sometimes.

Let me see if I can help.

Every prospect is started at too low a level. None of them are promoted quickly enough. Everyone is artificially held down.

If they have success at A+, "I've gotta see it at AA for it to be real". If they succeed at AA, then "I need to see them do it with the MLB ball". If they do well at AAA, then "we've had so many guys come up and not be ready. I've gotta see it at the MLB level."

And if all that fails, default to "yeah, but we didn't draft any pitching."

And in every post, it helps if you add "gaming his service time." No need for it to be accurate, just throw it in anyway. 

[Turtle]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

They saved 300K.  Gunnar cost 600K over.  I'd say the savings from Adley were significant to how the draft went.

Oh come on. Adley signed the largest signing bonus in MLB history up to that point. And other than Tork, most #1 overall picks don't sign the full allotment. Trying to act like that selection had any type of under-slot strategy to it is just silly. 

[Sports Guy]

44 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

Again, this place can complain about winning the lottery. Truly pathetic responses from the same folks over and over. They are like those little whiny baby dolls. Keep pulling the string and keep saying the same “wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh” statements. 
 

we have gone from near bottom to number two in 3 years. We have the number one prospect in baseball. We have the number one pitching prospect in baseball. We have a 19 year old in the top 100. Westburg is having a player of the year type season and is already at AA. I’d say we are firing on all cylinders, building a solid foundation to rinse and repeat with huge amounts of competition down at the farm to push these guys even more and we are building a massive window of opportunity at the major league level. Do you guys honestly think they only take the top 100 to form their rankings? We’ve got tons of guys they may not be in the top 100 but are certainly in a top 250 if they had one. Look at our talent level at AA and AAA for example if you need your hand held. 

No one is complaining about the farm system in terms of a broad subject.  Everyone recognizes the improvements and are happy about them.  Yes, there are some things to worry about but as a whole, everyone knows and sees the improvement, despite your ridiculous strawman arguments.  

You are arguing with a wall which is perhaps the only way you can win an argument.  

[Explosivo]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No one is complaining about the farm system in terms of a broad subject.  Everyone recognizes the improvements and are happy about them.  Yes, there are some things to worry about but as a whole, everyone knows and sees the improvement, despite your ridiculous strawman arguments.  

You are arguing with a wall which is perhaps the only way you can win an argument.  

If I’m arguing with a wall, you are a broken record. Yes plenty are complaining about the farm system to the “it’s all top heavy” to the “farm rankings are bs” to the “yeah but our major league team sucks” it’s a constant whining from you and others that is both noticeable and ridiculous. Fox had a great point in that we have largely had the same result with over 50% reduction in payroll. We are now finally loaded with talent in the pipeline and most importantly it proves Elias knows what the hell he is doing.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

If I’m arguing with a wall, you are a broken record. Yes plenty are complaining about the farm system to the “it’s all top heavy” to the “farm rankings are bs” to the “yeah but our major league team sucks” it’s a constant whining from you and others that is both noticeable and ridiculous. Fox had a great point in that we have largely had the same result with over 50% reduction in payroll. We are now finally loaded with talent in the pipeline and most importantly it proves Elias knows what the hell he is doing.

Well, farm system rankings are bs in that they don’t guarantee you anything.  It shows progress and upside but nothing more than that.

The ML team does suck.  Are you disputing that?

And would you rather people discuss (on a discussion board) issues that don’t matter?  Would you like people to ignore things?

I have said Elias is the best thing to happen to the organization in 25 years.  I can both feel that and question some of the things he has done.  And btw, what I question are facts.  They aren’t arguments.  It is a FACT that they have failed to develop the young pitching at this level.  It is a FACt that Elias has failed to bring in ML players that can help the team short and long term.  It is a FACT that the ML team is an embarrassment.

These are the things people complain about and they should and have every right to do it.  If you are tired of hearing people discuss the Orioles On an Orioles message board, perhaps your time would be better served elsewhere because this talk isn’t going away until Elias starts to show that he can build a ML product worth watching.

[Explosivo]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, farm system rankings are bs in that they don’t guarantee you anything.  It shows progress and upside but nothing more than that.

The ML team does suck.  Are you disputing that?

And would you rather people discuss (on a discussion board) issues that don’t matter?  Would you like people to ignore things?

I have said Elias is the best thing to happen to the organization in 25 years.  I can both feel that and question some of the things he has done.  And btw, what I question are facts.  They aren’t arguments.  It is a FACT that they have failed to develop the young pitching at this level.  It is a FACt that Elias has failed to bring in ML players that can help the team short and long term.  It is a FACT that the ML team is an embarrassment.

These are the things people complain about and they should and have every right to do it.  If you are tired of hearing people discuss the Orioles On an Orioles message board, perhaps your time would be better served elsewhere because this talk isn’t going away until Elias starts to show that he can build a ML product worth watching.

The people that failed in those respects are not part of the team. I am glad that you think Elias is the best thing to happen to the club in 25 years. That we can agree on.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

The people that failed in those respects are not part of the team. I am glad that you think Elias is the best thing to happen to the club in 25 years. That we can agree on.

What are you talking about?  I’m talking about failures directly related to Elias and his staff.

[Explosivo]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What are you talking about?  I’m talking about failures directly related to Elias and his staff.

Like whom? Akin and Kramer?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Explosivo said:

Like whom? Akin and Kramer?

Pick whoever..but I’m not talking about players.  I’m talking about the coaches, the development system, the tech, etc…all of it is part of his plan and so far, that part is a failure.

I mean, it’s great that guys are excelling in the minors but a lot of those guys are playing in leagues that they shouldn’t be in..that they are too old for, etc..you have to take some of these stats with a grain of salt.  
 

We do need to see how they do in the upper minors and then how they translate into the majors.  Elias has proven that he can build a system and he has done a good job in trades.  That’s all great and it’s very needed.  But he has to do a lot more and he has failed to do a lot of the other stuff.  Do I think he will?  Yes I do but it’s far from a certainty and this ranking doesn’t guarantee them a title, despite what some seem to think.

[Explosivo]

You can’t in one breath say they are failing while also saying that the guys who are succeeding (which are more than Hall and Rodriguez) are doing so because they are big fish in small ponds. Look at Bradish, Baumann, Smith, Bautista, Lowther, etc. those are guys who are excelling. They talk about the use of tech and coaching specifics that have unlocked greater talents and highlighted precisely what they excel at while also showing what they need to work on. The coaches in the minors are all on the same page in their goal to get the most out of each player. I disagree entirely when you say that has been a failure. To say that is to disregard all the examples to the contrary.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Explosivo said:

Again, this place can complain about winning the lottery. Truly pathetic responses from the same folks over and over. They are like those little whiny baby dolls. Keep pulling the string and keep saying the same “wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh” statements. 

Your posts would be a lot better if you just argued your position and gave your reasons rather than insulting other posters who don’t agree with you.  Stuff like the above adds nothing useful to the conversation.  

It’s obviously not debatable that the farm system is much better than when Elias arrived.   

I like Fangraphs’ ranking system because it’s very systematic and you can see exactly how they get to their rankings.   They rank us no. 1 right now, which is great.   I’d feel a lot better about it if Heston Kjerstad and DL Hall were actually playing baseball.   By their system, our overall depth is a little better than average, but not by much.   They like our top end talent.   

 

[jabba72]

Quote

Orioles now 2

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

You can’t in one breath say they are failing while also saying that the guys who are succeeding (which are more than Hall and Rodriguez) are doing so because they are big fish in small ponds. Look at Bradish, Baumann, Smith, Bautista, Lowther, etc. those are guys who are excelling. They talk about the use of tech and coaching specifics that have unlocked greater talents and highlighted precisely what they excel at while also showing what they need to work on. The coaches in the minors are all on the same page in their goal to get the most out of each player. I disagree entirely when you say that has been a failure. To say that is to disregard all the examples to the contrary.

Well first of all, I have never said that the minors are failing.   It’s just a lie and completely made up.  
 

Lowther and Smith aren’t doing good.  Perhaps looking up their stats should happen for ya?

Bautista has been good..at age 26.  I like him though.  We will see how it translates up here.

I like Baumann and Bradish.

Im one of the few people on here that expects the team to contend in 2023.  I obviously like a lot of what they are doing but they still need to do it and this team and the product we have to watch right now is embarrassing and shouldn’t be this level bad.