Kelvin Gutierrez’s defense

[AnythingO's]

Doesn't he beat the ball into the ground at some absurd rate? With plus power shouldn't he be a candidate for a swing rebuild in the offseason? His D is a pleasure to watch.

[Frobby]

With his recent hot streak, Gutierrez has hit .240/.324/.333 as an Oriole, and due to his defense, has been worth 0.7 rWAR in 45 games.   Not bad at all.   He’s hit two homers this week and still only has an .093 ISO as an Oriole (it was .039 before the two homers).    The one he hit last night was no cheapie.   

[Just Regular]

Nearly unseated Severino/Mountcastle for the Team Max EV title belt.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast?type=batter&year=2021&position=&team=110&min=100&sort=5&sortDir=desc

AnythingO's correct the 2.1 degree Launch Angle the team-low by A LOT, and is 8th lowest MLB-wide among 401 guys with 100 Batted Ball Events.   

Controlling strike zone wise, he's in between Severino and Hays at chase rate.

Ramon Urias' success makes more of a tryout early next year I suppose a little more palatable if whatever money there is buys pitchers.

[wildcard]

45 minutes ago, Frobby said:

With his recent hot streak, Gutierrez has hit .240/.324/.333 as an Oriole, and due to his defense, has been worth 0.7 rWAR in 45 games.   Not bad at all.   He’s hit two homers this week and still only has an .093 ISO as an Oriole (it was .039 before the two homers).    The one he hit last night was no cheapie.   

I don't consider a 657 OPS to be not bad for a 3B. He is a glove first 3B same as Ruiz was.  Now Ruiz is no longer a Oriole.

[Philip]

27 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't consider a 657 OPS to be not bad for a 3B. He is a glove first 3B same as Ruiz was.  Now Ruiz is no longer a Oriole.

Ruiz’ defense was nowhere near KG’s. I don’t think Ruiz ran as fast either. I understand the argument for dumping KG, but I’d personally be happy to keep him unless someone noticeably better comes along. 
Someone suggested a move to SS, and I’d be happy to try that.

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

With his recent hot streak, Gutierrez has hit .240/.324/.333 as an Oriole, and due to his defense, has been worth 0.7 rWAR in 45 games.   Not bad at all.   He’s hit two homers this week and still only has an .093 ISO as an Oriole (it was .039 before the two homers).    The one he hit last night was no cheapie.   

Just like Mateo, he needs everyday ABs and reps. I much prefer him to any stop gap we could sign. 

[LA2]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

The O's basically dumped Ruiz to give Franco a try.   Ruiz and Gutierrez are similar players.   I don't see Elias sticking with Gutierrez when the O's are now thinking that its time to start winning.   Elias will be looking for a 3B that can both hit and play defense.   Whether that is Urias or someone else. JMO.

Just going by the eye and memory test (defensive stats being unreliable on such SSS), Gutierrez is a better 3rd baseman defensively than Ruiz.

[Aristotelian]

Kelvin's arm is way stronger than Ruiz. Even if their other skills are about equal that arm is a huge asset for 3B. 

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

The O's basically dumped Ruiz to give Franco a try.   Ruiz and Gutierrez are similar players.   I don't see Elias sticking with Gutierrez when the O's are now thinking that its time to start winning.   Elias will be looking for a 3B that can both hit and play defense.   Whether that is Urias or someone else. JMO.

The O's carried Ruiz at 2B while trying Franco. They got rid of Ruiz to give Urias a shot at playing full time. Gutierrez has a much stronger arm than Ruiz which is a huge asset at 3B even if their other skills are about equal. I've seen him make good throws coming in on the run as well as after diving to his right. Gutierrez appears to have more raw power too. I am on board with a Harrison/Escobar type but I can also see trying to squeeze some value out of KG and deploying FA dollars on pitching. 

[RZNJ]

I think Ruiz had issues with his throwing the last 2 years.   Gutierrez seems to have a stronger and truer arm.  I like Gutierrez and I root for him but I just don't see him pull too many fastballs with authority.   He's got a nice stroke to RF.   I just don't see the offensive potential without being able to pull with authority.

[CharmCityHokie]

4 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

Doesn't he beat the ball into the ground at some absurd rate? With plus power shouldn't he be a candidate for a swing rebuild in the offseason? His D is a pleasure to watch.

In short, yes. As I said in another thread, he is basically the Zack Britton of hitters. For his major league career he has as 62% GB% (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/kelvin-gutierrez/17468/stats?position=3B#batted-ball)

He's pretty much the poster child candidate for the launch angle revolution. He does have power, and he can run, he just has to hit the ball in the air and it would change his fortunes a bit more I believe. 

[Just Regular]

59 minutes ago, CharmCityHokie said:

In short, yes. As I said in another thread, he is basically the Zack Britton of hitters. For his major league career he has as 62% GB% (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/kelvin-gutierrez/17468/stats?position=3B#batted-ball)

He's pretty much the poster child candidate for the launch angle revolution. He does have power, and he can run, he just has to hit the ball in the air and it would change his fortunes a bit more I believe. 

Poking around the team Statcast page, I didn't notice when browsing earlier today the 44.0 Hard Hit percentage is team best.

The 2.4 Barrels/PA% is team worst, though obviously its the angle half of the equation holding that measurement back.

Tampa is finishing up their 3rd full year with Yandy Diaz as one data point in how much a team can help an individual with stuff like this, though there, more than the worm burning, Yandy's carrying tool is 90th+ percentile plate discipline.

[CharmCityHokie]

29 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Poking around the team Statcast page, I didn't notice when browsing earlier today the 44.0 Hard Hit percentage is team best.

The 2.4 Barrels/PA% is team worst, though obviously its the angle half of the equation holding that measurement back.

Tampa is finishing up their 3rd full year with Yandy Diaz as one data point in how much a team can help an individual with stuff like this, though there, more than the worm burning, Yandy's carrying tool is 90th+ percentile plate discipline.

I definitely think the power and bat speed are there to be at least an average hitter with pop, but there are so many factors to getting buy-in to a swing change. He's got something like 2500 at bats in the minors and only around 30 HRs. You have to imagine someone has told him to think about elevating the ball before. He looks like to me like batspeed isn't the issue, but he's long and lanky, and those levers are sometimes difficult to convince to do something they've got muscle memory for. 

That being said, I like him, I like his defense, I like how he seems to relish an everyday role and I'm rooting for him. I just don't know if he's anything more than a stopgap defense-first 3B.

[Jammer7]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

I don't consider a 657 OPS to be not bad for a 3B. He is a glove first 3B same as Ruiz was.  Now Ruiz is no longer a Oriole.

Gutierrez is far better a defender than Ruiz ever was. Better feet, better hands, and a plus plus arm. 

[Jammer7]

52 minutes ago, CharmCityHokie said:

I definitely think the power and bat speed are there to be at least an average hitter with pop, but there are so many factors to getting buy-in to a swing change. He's got something like 2500 at bats in the minors and only around 30 HRs. You have to imagine someone has told him to think about elevating the ball before. He looks like to me like batspeed isn't the issue, but he's long and lanky, and those levers are sometimes difficult to convince to do something they've got muscle memory for. 

That being said, I like him, I like his defense, I like how he seems to relish an everyday role and I'm rooting for him. I just don't know if he's anything more than a stopgap defense-first 3B.

I agree with nearly everything here. It looks like Don Long, or someone else, has him moving his hands down a bit lately. His hands used to be a few inches higher at load. He looks like he is still getting used to the new load point, and I see him feeling for it at load at times lately. He had a downward plane to his swing, and he loses his back foot at times. He has started to finish higher as well.

I have stated since we first brought him in that he is the best defender we have had since Manny. The arm is a half tick below Manny, but his athleticism is  truly elite. He seems to fit in with this group. I think they are genuinely intrigued by him and he has a good shot to stay. If he continues to show progress in his load, swing plane and finish, I can see his numbers going up considerably. Particularly if he can learn a little better swing decision discipline.

I am dreaming on tools just a bit here, but we can afford to keep him and find out. Richie Martin is probably out. And who would you rather have, Bannon or Gutierrez? I’ll take Gutierrez.

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

I don't consider a 657 OPS to be not bad for a 3B. He is a glove first 3B same as Ruiz was.  Now Ruiz is no longer a Oriole.

,657 OPS sucks.   0.7 rWAR in 45 games doesn’t suck at all.   I don’t think it’s a sustainable WAR/game rate if his OPS hangs at .650 or below.   So, I expect he will need to hit better to be viable.   He has hit better lately - a lot better.   90% chance it’s just a hot streak, but I’m rooting for the 10% chance he’s figured something out.