Tim Dierkes: Orioles should trade John Means

[Philip]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

On one hand, I like the idea of continuing to stock the system.  

The first time I read that it read like you wanted to continue to “stock the asylum.”

That made me laugh…

[Philip]

2 Pennies:

Means is injury-prone. He wears out during the long season. 4.6 FIP. A .230 BABIP implies he’s been a bit lucky.

Hes going to get a huge raise in December.

Yes trade him, but find a hungry team desperate for October (coughcoughSeattlecoughcough) who has money, is just on the verge, and sees a weakened division ripe for the taking. And don’t settle for one prospect

[sportsfan8703]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

Ye of little faith.

4 teams in our division are going to win 90 games this year. That’s a huge road block. We need to load up for 2024+ to be able to compete. That means getting more top picks and trading away MLB talent when they make themselves “high value”. Keep building the farm. 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

Os fans are hilarious. Haven’t won a championship in nearly 40 years and haven’t had a single home grown starting pitcher since Mussina and everyone in here clamoring to trade him. 

A culture of losing indeed. Keep stocking those corner OFers though, that will get the championship! 

[DrungoHazewood]

5 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Os fans are hilarious. Haven’t won a championship in nearly 40 years and haven’t had a single home grown starting pitcher since Mussina and everyone in here clamoring to trade him. 

A culture of losing indeed. Keep stocking those corner OFers though, that will get the championship! 

They grew Bedard, saw that he had value and durability issues, then flipped him for Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, and others, laying the groundwork for the successes of 2012-16. 

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Os fans are hilarious. Haven’t won a championship in nearly 40 years and haven’t had a single home grown starting pitcher since Mussina and everyone in here clamoring to trade him. 

A culture of losing indeed. Keep stocking those corner OFers though, that will get the championship! 

What would we do without your award winning analysis?

[Ruzious]

59 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They grew Bedard, saw that he had value and durability issues, then flipped him for Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, and others, laying the groundwork for the successes of 2012-16. 

Yeah - there are a lot of similarities between Bedard and Means - and Bedard was traded when he was Means' age.  I guess if we're offered a similar valued package to the Tillman/Adam Jones package, we should consider it.  

[Sports Guy]

If there isn’t going to be any ownership commitment for 2022, im much more inclined to deal Means and Mullins but it depends on what they get back.  The packages have to be really good.  

[Camden_yardbird]

7 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

4 teams in our division are going to win 90 games this year. That’s a huge road block. We need to load up for 2024+ to be able to compete. That means getting more top picks and trading away MLB talent when they make themselves “high value”. Keep building the farm. 

You can't load up for 2024 using this method.  Prospects just aren't ready that fast.  Especially under Elias, the transition from the minors to the pros has been a shaky thing.

Additionally, if you build your team to be competitive those teams aren't winning 90+ games.  The Orioles aren't going 2-17 against the rays.  Even a .500 record means the rays are suddenly "maybe a 90 win team."

[maybenxtyr]

6 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

You can't load up for 2024 using this method.  Prospects just aren't ready that fast.  Especially under Elias, the transition from the minors to the pros has been a shaky thing.

Additionally, if you build your team to be competitive those teams aren't winning 90+ games.  The Orioles aren't going 2-17 against the rays.  Even a .500 record means the rays are suddenly "maybe a 90 win team."

Exactly. I was just checking baseball reference trying to figure out where the major gaps were this season. 1-17 vs Tampa, 0-7 against the White Sox, and of course some 0-3's mixed in. Talent wise we know the team is lacking, but with some intelligent moves and promotions the course could change quickly. 

 

The fact that this team managed to go 8-11 vs New York is amazing. 

 

The front office can't slow roll this in hopes that the pack comes back. That generally doesn't work out. 

[Sports Guy]

As I said before, what happens this year has no bearing on 2022.  
 

It’s still all about ownership commitment and develop of young players. If those things come together, this team can change fast.

[Ruzious]

38 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If there isn’t going to be any ownership commitment for 2022, im much more inclined to deal Means and Mullins but it depends on what they get back.  The packages have to be really good.  

The packages definitely have to be real good.  I don't see any sign that ownership is committed to 2022 as anything but another developmental year.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

The packages definitely have to be real good.  I don't see any sign that ownership is committed to 2022 as anything but another developmental year.  

I don’t think this is true at all.  First of all we won’t really see any signs right now anyway.

But secondly, the Os decided to stand Pat the deadline and Elias had talked about moving in a different direction.  
 

I think everything that has been done and said is pointing to them wanting to commit..we just don’t know to what level.

[sportsfan8703]

Why is everyone glossing over these facts below when we talk about trying to “compete” in 2022/2023:

1.  TB, Tor, Bos, and the NYY are all on pace to be 90 win+ teams this year.

2. TB and Tor are both young teams with loaded farm systems.

3.  BOS and NYY are 2/3 of the biggest spenders in MLB.  Year in, Year out. 

You guys think it’s ownership “holding us back from competing” NO, it’s those 4 teams that are holding us back. 

I know we haven’t competed since the 2016 WC game. 2024 seems like a tough pill to swallow. However, “going for it now” is how an 8 year rebuild becomes 16 again. 

Like it or not we’re going to take our lumps next year anyway. You just don’t go from 49 wins to 82. Not in this division, with those 4 teams. 

What is Means doing for us in 2022/2023?  Except getting older and having a chance for more injuries. See Matt Boyd w/Det for Ex.  
 

What is Mullins doing for us in 2022/2023?  Can he really put up 30/30 again?  Sell High!!!

At this point when we make trades, you target players still in the minors, and get the best possible return regardless of position. Why???  Because then you use your excess prospects to fill in the holes you have in 2024.  
 

But everyone go ahead and wish for that 16 year rebuild. 

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Why is everyone glossing over these facts below when we talk about trying to “compete” in 2022/2023:

1.  TB, Tor, Bos, and the NYY are all on pace to be 90 win+ teams this year.

2. TB and Tor are both young teams with loaded farm systems.

3.  BOS and NYY are 2/3 of the biggest spenders in MLB.  Year in, Year out. 

You guys think it’s ownership “holding us back from competing” NO, it’s those 4 teams that are holding us back. 

I know we haven’t competed since the 2016 WC game. 2024 seems like a tough pill to swallow. However, “going for it now” is how an 8 year rebuild becomes 16 again. 

Like it or not we’re going to take our lumps next year anyway. You just don’t go from 49 wins to 82. Not in this division, with those 4 teams. 

What is Means doing for us in 2022/2023?  Except getting older and having a chance for more injuries. See Matt Boyd w/Det for Ex.  
 

What is Mullins doing for us in 2022/2023?  Can he really put up 30/30 again?  Sell High!!!

At this point when we make trades, you target players still in the minors, and get the best possible return regardless of position. Why???  Because then you use your excess prospects to fill in the holes you have in 2024.  
 

But everyone go ahead and wish for that 16 year rebuild. 

Why are you glossing over that things can change very fast in pro sports?