Joc Pederson and the Number of the Beast

[Sanfran327]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Someone wants to buy a baseball team.  Especially a team like the Orioles with a venue to play in like they do.  

If the 2014 playoffs taught us anything, it's that this fanbase is still active. I think selling the team and having an organization in charge that will actually do things the right way (at least according to the court of public opinion) will put butts back in seats and re-energize fans. Every single one of us has heard in conversations here and there from more casual or "former" O's fans that they just can't support an Angelos-owned team. 

So I agree with you. The O's might not look like the best choice on paper, but dig just a little bit deeper and I think you'll see a scenario where you can have a very profitable club on your hands in a short period of time. Most Ravens fans are also O's fans, and they don't have a hard time filling that stadium. The difference (other than the number of games) is that the Ravens are possibly the #1 organization in the NFL, and the O's are a laughing stock. The fans are there; they just need a reason to come back.

[btdart20]

What's Joc's agenda here?  Support the fans by shaming the bottom 3 payroll owners?  Wanting fans to "cancel" the team so the owners sell?  Because that tweet won't cause Angelos to say, "You know what?  Joc is right, I do need to do better."

The MLBPA just proved that they are in it for the same thing as owners are in it for...  a money grab.  It had very little to do with reframing the league to be more competitive.  Glad that the most marginal players of the MLB got a 22.7% raise.  But good grief, read the room!  The average compensation increase in 2021 in America was 3% (and that's the highest it's been in over a decade).  Honestly, I'm not really upset with them getting a bigger piece of the pie.  I'm more upset that the competitive structure of the game hasn't overcome the revenue differences AND the human/business nature to maximize owner profits.  Fix the system and the competition will happen (if that's the goal).  

Angelos isn't selling, no matter how much we want him to.  The margins the team must be making is worth it.  I want better and am done with this purgatory too.  But the owners aren't broke, the system is.  And the MLBPA are complicit.  

But there's no way the Baltimore metro area can support an annual $230+M payroll.  And even if we bumped our payroll to $150M, what's to stop the Yankees and other mega markets from bumping their's $275-300M (and still maintain their other expenses with a decent margin) to be more competitive themselves?  It's the same spiral that the Fed is currently afraid of in the macro economy...  It's not a linear problem.  

[Sports Guy]

31 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm reading this article on the Athletic about how Correa landed with the Twins.  Basically Boras called them and pitched them.  The Twins had freed up some payroll when they traded Donaldson to the Yankees but had a hole at shortstop.  

Boras just simply sends a text message to the Twins GM "we need to talk," he goes and stands with Kris Bryant that afternoon to introduce him to the Rockies.  The Twins know that Boras is going to pitch them on one of his three remaining big ticket items:  Correa, Castellanos and Conforto.  

Boras calls and just straight up pitches them. "I have a player who likes to hit in your ballpark, would fit on your roster, has leadership values and would take less years on a contract if the money is right."  And the Twins are hooked.  

So then Boras reveals that it's Correa, they all hang up, the Twins FO practically ****s their collective pants and starts to scramble before Houston could pounce on that offer or the Yankees could get involved.  

Basically, the Twins scrambled all afternoon and into the evening to get to work on it.  Members of the front office blew off a dinner with corporate sponsors and then they started negotiating.  They got Rocco Baldelli on a zoom call with Correa and others to tell him about the atmosphere, the environment, everything.  

And after that, it all fell into place.

It's great journalism and it's a great story.  It's a really good read and if you have the Athletic I would recommend reading it.  

But the thing that sticks out to me is that...well, we're a team with a hole at shortstop.  We're a team with a park that Correa likes to hit in (granted it's against our terrible pitching and it's not as good as he performed in Target Field, but still).  We're a team that could use a leader.

And Boras never called us.  Well, maybe he did but it's not being reported anywhere. 

I'm assuming that Boras never called us to pitch Correa to us because he knows that we're not going to spend 35.1 million a year on a talent like that.  You can like him or hate him, but Boras has his ear to the ground at all times and he has to know that we're not going to spend. 

I mean, why not call the Orioles?  Why not pitch Correa to us?  Why not, at the very least, use the Orioles as leverage to get his player more money elsewhere?

It's because he knows the Orioles aren't serious.  And that if a team like the Twins heard that the Orioles were also in on Correa, they'd probably just laugh it off.  

I'm not saying the Twins are the prom queen or anything but I know the Orioles are the fat kid at the prom for sure.  Hell, they're not even at the prom, they're at home watching porn and out of Lubriderm.  

 

People can slam on Boras all they want but the bottom line is he is really good at what he does and knows the pulse of every team, GM and ownership group.  
 

If he reached out to Minn and not to us, that says a lot.  People will poopoo it and act like it’s nothing but when you are the best at what you do and your job is to get the most money possible and you don’t call a team with money to spend and a gaping hole at SS, it means something.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

What's Joc's agenda here?  Support the fans by shaming the bottom 3 payroll owners?  Wanting fans to "cancel" the team so the owners sell?  Because that tweet won't cause Angelos to say, "You know what?  Joc is right, I do need to do better."

 

I think he was just venting.  Probably not completely satisfied with how the CBA talks shook out.

[Sports Guy]

24 minutes ago, wildcard said:

 You are a fan sitting on the couch complaining.

Elias graduated from Yale and spent the next 11 years sharping his  scouting, talent evaluation  and management skills while working for two pretty successful MLB organizations.  

Then he takes the EVP and GM job for the Orioles and builds one the best minor league organization in the areas of drafting, player development, analytics and international scouting and development.

He is stacking the organization with talent in the outfield, infield  and catching .   He has developed two starters in  the top 100 prospects in the minors  and has traded for a starter that is one of the O's top prospects.   A lot of this talent will be in the the majors in the next year or so.

He also has a low payroll and plenty of room to spend to fill gaps if needed.

Elias has actually done a lot in his baseball career.   You just sit there as a fan and complain.     I am watching what he does and what you say.  And I have to side with Elias on the merits.

lol.  The disconnect is with people like you, not Elias.  You guys are the delusional ones.

Elias just has an ownership group that doesn’t care right now.

Btw, do you have a poster of Elias on your bedroom ceiling?

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

What's Joc's agenda here?  Support the fans by shaming the bottom 3 payroll owners?  Wanting fans to "cancel" the team so the owners sell?  Because that tweet won't cause Angelos to say, "You know what?  Joc is right, I do need to do better."

The MLBPA just proved that they are in it for the same thing as owners are in it for...  a money grab.  It had very little to do with reframing the league to be more competitive.  Glad that the most marginal players of the MLB got a 22.7% raise.  But good grief, read the room!  The average compensation increase in 2021 in America was 3% (and that's the highest it's been in over a decade).  Honestly, I'm not really upset with them getting a bigger piece of the pie.  I'm more upset that the competitive structure of the game hasn't overcome the revenue differences AND the human/business nature to maximize owner profits.  Fix the system and the competition will happen (if that's the goal).  

Angelos isn't selling, no matter how much we want him to.  The margins the team must be making is worth it.  I want better and am done with this purgatory too.  But the owners aren't broke, the system is.  And the MLBPA are complicit.  

But there's no way the Baltimore metro area can support an annual $230+M payroll.  And even if we bumped our payroll to $150M, what's to stop the Yankees and other mega markets from bumping their's $275-300M (and still maintain their other expenses with a decent margin) to be more competitive themselves?  It's the same spiral that the Fed is currently afraid of in the macro economy...  It's not a linear problem.  

I think Joc is just furthering the discussion that, in part, led to the players issues during the lockout.

And he’s right.

[Hank Scorpio]

MLB revenue streams are dying.

Rich people are rich for a reason.

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

lol.  The disconnect is with people like you, not Elias.  You guys are the delusional ones.

Elias just has an ownership group that doesn’t care right now.

Btw, do you have a poster of Elias on your bedroom ceiling?

I don't think my wife would like that.  She has a picture of our wedding on the bedroom wall though.

[btdart20]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

And he’s right.

Maybe/maybe not...  I haven't seen anything that significantly fosters competition. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, btdart20 said:

Maybe/maybe not...  I haven't seen anything that significantly fosters competition. 

No, he’s right.

Having a payroll this small is pathetic.

When you combine that with this being 4 years into this “rebuild” and the team had a payroll of almost 170M not that long ago, it’s even worse.

And btw, I would be irritated if I were an Indians fan and Pitt.  At least Cleveland has been good recently.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

The team I can’t figure out is the Guardians.   They’d actually be a contender if they spent a modest amount of money.   

As to Pedersen’s tweet, perhaps buyers aren’t lining up to buy these teams.   
 

What??? You clearly have no idea what’s going on with ownership. I assure you, there is plenty of interest for ANY professional sports franchise. Guaranteed money. 

This post is spot on. Professional leagues need to hold crap franchises like the Orioles & Dan Snyder’s  accountable or force them to sell. 

Tired of endless excuses, these fan bases deserve better, their cities deserve better. 

[BohKnowsBmore]

58 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm reading this article on the Athletic about how Correa landed with the Twins.  Basically Boras called them and pitched them.  The Twins had freed up some payroll when they traded Donaldson to the Yankees but had a hole at shortstop.  

Boras just simply sends a text message to the Twins GM "we need to talk," he goes and stands with Kris Bryant that afternoon to introduce him to the Rockies.  The Twins know that Boras is going to pitch them on one of his three remaining big ticket items:  Correa, Castellanos and Conforto.  

Boras calls and just straight up pitches them. "I have a player who likes to hit in your ballpark, would fit on your roster, has leadership values and would take less years on a contract if the money is right."  And the Twins are hooked.  

So then Boras reveals that it's Correa, they all hang up, the Twins FO practically ****s their collective pants and starts to scramble before Houston could pounce on that offer or the Yankees could get involved.  

Basically, the Twins scrambled all afternoon and into the evening to get to work on it.  Members of the front office blew off a dinner with corporate sponsors and then they started negotiating.  They got Rocco Baldelli on a zoom call with Correa and others to tell him about the atmosphere, the environment, everything.  

And after that, it all fell into place.

It's great journalism and it's a great story.  It's a really good read and if you have the Athletic I would recommend reading it.  

But the thing that sticks out to me is that...well, we're a team with a hole at shortstop.  We're a team with a park that Correa likes to hit in (granted it's against our terrible pitching and it's not as good as he performed in Target Field, but still).  We're a team that could use a leader.

And Boras never called us.  Well, maybe he did but it's not being reported anywhere. 

I'm assuming that Boras never called us to pitch Correa to us because he knows that we're not going to spend 35.1 million a year on a talent like that.  You can like him or hate him, but Boras has his ear to the ground at all times and he has to know that we're not going to spend. 

I mean, why not call the Orioles?  Why not pitch Correa to us?  Why not, at the very least, use the Orioles as leverage to get his player more money elsewhere?

It's because he knows the Orioles aren't serious.  And that if a team like the Twins heard that the Orioles were also in on Correa, they'd probably just laugh it off.  

I'm not saying the Twins are the prom queen or anything but I know the Orioles are the fat kid at the prom for sure.  Hell, they're not even at the prom, they're at home watching porn and out of Lubriderm.  

 

 

46 minutes ago, Hazmat said:

I don't disagree but it's also possible that Correa had no interest in playing for the O's.

Story is also being told from vantage of the team that did sign him. Doesn't preclude other conversations from having happened.

[geschinger]

21 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

But the thing that sticks out to me is that...well, we're a team with a hole at shortstop.  We're a team with a park that Correa likes to hit in (granted it's against our terrible pitching and it's not as good as he performed in Target Field, but still).  We're a team that could use a leader.

And Boras never called us.  Well, maybe he did but it's not being reported anywhere. 

I'm assuming that Boras never called us to pitch Correa to us because he knows that we're not going to spend 35.1 million a year on a talent like that.  You can like him or hate him, but Boras has his ear to the ground at all times and he has to know that we're not going to spend. 

I mean, why not call the Orioles?  Why not pitch Correa to us?  Why not, at the very least, use the Orioles as leverage to get his player more money elsewhere?

It's because he knows the Orioles aren't serious.  And that if a team like the Twins heard that the Orioles were also in on Correa, they'd probably just laugh it off.  

I'm not saying the Twins are the prom queen or anything but I know the Orioles are the fat kid at the prom for sure.  Hell, they're not even at the prom, they're at home watching porn and out of Lubriderm.  

I thinnk we can all agree going to a short term deal only happens *after* Boras determines he can't get an acceptable long term deal with.  The goal is to get Correa back on the market as soon as possible to cash in on the $300+m deals that Boras wants.  

Once you get to that point - the Twins are an obvious choice - they are close.  This is a division winner in 2019 and 2020 that had everything go wrong in 2021.   They are a team that has enough talent to have a legitimate shot of getting to the postseason with Correa.   I saw in the article they were willing to increase payroll to but not be stupid - i.e. willing to spend on 4 years for Story but bowing out when he was getting offers longer than that.  These are the kind of moves / offers I think an unrestrained Elias should consider 2023 or 2024 if the young talent has developed and their getting production like the Twins are getting out of their young players.  But a one year (most likely) or up to three years commitment in 2022 - I'm not seeing how the Orioles would be attractive enough to Boras/Correa to warrant a call.

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Even Joc Pederson is throwing shade at the Orioles.  And he's absolutely right.  

Absolute dead last in payroll, that's pathetic.  And see that number at the end?  Proof positive that the devil is involved here with this ownership.  

Well at least the O's didn't overpay for the worst team in baseball.

[Frobby]

39 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

People can slam on Boras all they want but the bottom line is he is really good at what he does and knows the pulse of every team, GM and ownership group.  
 

If he reached out to Minn and not to us, that says a lot.  People will poopoo it and act like it’s nothing but when you are the best at what you do and your job is to get the most money possible and you don’t call a team with money to spend and a gaping hole at SS, it means something.

It probably means he knew the O’s weren’t going to bite on a short-term deal with opt-outs.  It doesn’t make a lot of sense for them.