Jordan Westburg 2022

[Jammer7]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

MLB Pipeline

 

Defense isn’t Westburg’s calling card given his size and average speed, but he’s a reliable defender at short and athletic enough to move around if need be. His arm strength is plus; that and his power potential could forecast a move to third base somewhere down the line. Baltimore’s lack of high-level infield prospects made Westburg a candidate to move quickly and so far he’s lived up to that billing, reaching Double-A in 2021 and looking like a potential impact player at the big league level.

They have his arm at 55.  BA has it a 60.  Both grades are above average (50).

I agree. I see plenty of arm, but the knocks from some other outlets have been about his arm being short. Tony has said it, and other reports have come out with concerns. 

[Sports Guy]

26 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

The knocks on his defense are about his arm being a little short. Everything else is very good. The same was said about Urias’ arm, and that he was only a 2B. IDK. Gunnar clearly has the better arm of all three. Mateo is there too. I think Westburg’s arm would suffice at 3B and SS, but we’ll see. 

Exactly.  That’s why I brought up Urias.  The question has been arm strength.  Is it really worse than Urias?

[Jammer7]

Tony’s prospect write up at the end of 2021 was more complimentary than previous ones, but still noted an “average at best” arm. 
 

https://orioleshangout.com/8-jordan-westburg/

[Sports Guy]

So I bring this up for a much broader question.

What is our best defensive lineup at second/SS/third.

Is it Westburg at second, Ortiz at SS and Henderson at third?

Or is it Ortiz at second, Henderson as SS and Westburg at third.

It seems like Henderson can handle either position. 
 

I would guess Ortiz can handle second and SS.

But what about Westburg at second vs third?

And do we even care about positional  value in this discussion?  
 

And how much do you weigh Holliday in this, a player should be here within 2 years.  If he is destined for SS, as they obviously feel he is, and if Gunnar is the future face of the team (along with Adley), do you put him in a position where you will just have to move him soon enough?  

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

So I bring this up for a much broader question.

What is our best defensive lineup at second/SS/third.

Is it Westburg at second, Ortiz at SS and Henderson at third?

Or is it Ortiz at second, Henderson as SS and Westburg at third.

It seems like Henderson can handle either position. 
 

I would guess Ortiz can handle second and SS.

But what about Westburg at second vs third?

And do we even care about positional  value in this discussion?  
 

And how much do you weigh Holliday in this, a player should be here within 2 years.  If he is destined for SS, as they obviously feel he is, and if Gunnar is the future face of the team (along with Adley), do you put him in a position where you will just have to move him soon enough?  

For me, based on what limited looks I have had, Gunnar at 3B, Ortiz at SS and Westburg at 2B. That’s if we commit to those three and trade Urias and Mateo.

Gunnar and Westburg could handle SS well, but Ortiz is just much better for me at turning outs into outs. As far as Holliday, I worry about that if and when it happens. Injuries, trades and such happen. Connor Norby needs to be in the conversation about overall value, but seems just a bit behind defensively. Prieto, I just cannot get a great read on him yet. Bencosme might need to be in the conversation as well. I’ve been hearing he has a 70 hit tool, but the defense is raw. Probably not a SS long term. 

[wildcard]

I have no problem with:

1B - Mountcastle, Westburg

2B - Ortiz, Westburg, Urias

SS - Henderson, Mateo, Ortiz

3B - Westburg, Henderson, Urias

LF -  Hays, Westburg (If Westburg has 55-60 speed that is equal to Hays.  He is an athletic he can handle LF with reps in ST.

CF - Mullins, McKenna  

RF - Stowers,  Santander

C - Adley,  FA

DH - Santander and another who is hitting well

AAA- Vavra for call up for injuries and non performace

Hyde loves to move players around.  He will be able to get guys at bats.  If Mountcastle slumps.  Play Westburg at 1B.   If Hays slumps play Westburg or in the 2nd half Cowser in LF.  

I like deep depth.   I see no reason to trade any of these  guys.

Edited September 17, 2022 by wildcard

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So I bring this up for a much broader question.

What is our best defensive lineup at second/SS/third.

Is it Westburg at second, Ortiz at SS and Henderson at third?

Or is it Ortiz at second, Henderson as SS and Westburg at third.

It seems like Henderson can handle either position. 
 

I would guess Ortiz can handle second and SS.

But what about Westburg at second vs third?

And do we even care about positional  value in this discussion?  
 

And how much do you weigh Holliday in this, a player should be here within 2 years.  If he is destined for SS, as they obviously feel he is, and if Gunnar is the future face of the team (along with Adley), do you put him in a position where you will just have to move him soon enough?  

2 years is a long ways away.

[waroriole]

With the offense so awful, and Westburg dialed in now, there’s no excuse to not DFA Aguilar and bring up Westburg. 

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

For me, based on what limited looks I have had, Gunnar at 3B, Ortiz at SS and Westburg at 2B. That’s if we commit to those three and trade Urias and Mateo.

Gunnar and Westburg could handle SS well, but Ortiz is just much better for me at turning outs into outs. As far as Holliday, I worry about that if and when it happens. Injuries, trades and such happen. Connor Norby needs to be in the conversation about overall value, but seems just a bit behind defensively. Prieto, I just cannot get a great read on him yet. Bencosme might need to be in the conversation as well. I’ve been hearing he has a 70 hit tool, but the defense is raw. Probably not a SS long term. 

In IMO, at SS Mateo has the best range but Henderson is pretty close and will hit better.   Ortiz will commit less errors at SS and is a slick fielder but is not as rangy.  With no shift next year range will matter.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

2 years is a long ways away.

Doesn’t mean you don’t consider it though.

[Sports Guy]

Mateo shouldn’t be a consideration in the future SS talks imo..unless injuries occur.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

With the offense so awful, and Westburg dialed in now, there’s no excuse to not DFA Aguilar and bring up Westburg. 

Westburg is probably not going to be called up because he does not have to be protected on the 40 man roster this off season.  That saves a roster spot for Elias to fill with someone else.

[wildcard]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Mateo shouldn’t be a consideration in the future SS talks imo..unless injuries occur.

Henderson's combination of offense and defense probably pushes Mateo to the bench.   But Mateo is valuable for his defense and he can play SS/2B and all  three OF positions.   Hyde can find places to use Mateo.

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

In IMO, at SS Mateo has the best range but Henderson is pretty close and will hit better.   Ortiz will commit less errors at SS and is a slick fielder but is not as rangy.  With no shift next year range will matter.

Good points. Henderson could be a very good defensive SS, with great athleticism, hands, arm, feet and range. He will be getting bigger over the next few years. Playing SS at an elite level takes a lot out of the player. I would rather have him at 3B for his future growth and ability to be in the lineup more often. Just thinking beyond the next year or two.

Mateo is fantastic! I am a huge fan of his defense. Been on that train for a year now, and even I was surprised how good he is. He might start the year for us to further build his value. He should be arb eligible soon, and Ortiz is very good as well for less money. Maybe Ortiz comes up and plays a UT role for 2023. From what little I have seen of Ortiz, he may have a little less range but the gap doesn’t seem to be huge. He gets himself into a better throwing position to his right than Mateo. 

There will still be shifts, just within the parameters they set. No INF on OF grass, and two INF on each side. But we will see INF standing behind 2B. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Henderson's combination of offense and defense probably pushes Mateo to the bench.   But Mateo is valuable for his defense and he can play SS/2B and all  three OF positions.   Hyde can find places to use Mateo.

Sure.  No issues with him as a super UTI guy.  I said that last offseason.

But I would rather see if I can get 2-3 WAR starting SS value out of him via trade first.