Gunnar Henderson 2022

[DrungoHazewood]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This is why I can’t get too upset at Elias for some of his decisions this year that arguably hurt our playoff chances.  In the big picture, he’s set the team up for years of sustained success, and a very likable team, as you said.  Now, he needs to figure out how to get the team to the next level, but it’s clearly doable from here with the foundation he’s assembled.  

In a few years I doubt we'll still be obsessing over whether they should have traded future value for somewhat improved chances of making the 2022 playoffs.  We'll have more of peak Gunnar.

Who am I kidding, someone is going to moan about that until we're all in the old folks home.

[Sports Guy]

34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This is why I can’t get too upset at Elias for some of his decisions this year that arguably hurt our playoff chances.  In the big picture, he’s set the team up for years of sustained success, and a very likable team, as you said.  Now, he needs to figure out how to get the team to the next level, but it’s clearly doable from here with the foundation he’s assembled.  

Well, you can’t guarantee playoffs, so I don’t think he gets any kind of a pass for that with me.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, you can’t guarantee playoffs, so I don’t think he gets any kind of a pass for that with me.

I’m not saying I give him a pass.  I’m just saying that the good things he’s accomplished to date far outweigh the decisions that I’d criticize.   If it’s 2025 and we’ve never had a deep playoff run, maybe I’ll rethink it.   

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not saying I give him a pass.  I’m just saying that the good things he’s accomplished to date far outweigh the decisions that I’d criticize.   If it’s 2025 and we’ve never had a deep playoff run, maybe I’ll rethink it.   

Well sure but just because he has done good things doesn’t mean it’s ok he didn’t prioritize a 2022 run higher.

I don’t see why that needs to even be remotely said.  They are completely different things.

[Aristotelian]

I'm loving the opposite field power. I would venture to guess he has the most balanced spray chart on the team.

[Spy Fox]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Well sure but just because he has done good things doesn’t mean it’s ok he didn’t prioritize a 2022 run higher.

I don’t see why that needs to even be remotely said.  They are completely different things.

Saying something is "outweighed" by a positive isn't the same as saying that thing is ok. It implies that the thing in question is a negative if looked at in isolation.

[sportsfan8703]

Injuries happen, but manipulating AR and GR’s service time cost us the playoffs likely. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Injuries happen, but manipulating AR and GR’s service time cost us the playoffs likely. 

AR’s service time was not manipulated this year, IMO.   The O’s brought him up when they thought he was ready.  Service time wasn’t a factor.  I think Grayson is more debatable.  

[RZNJ]

People complained that Elias couldn’t find nuggets for nothing. They complained we couldn’t develop any of the young pitching.  They complained he would play the service time game on Henderson and every other prospect.   Everyone said this was a 60 to 75 win team at best and the original plan to contend in 2023 was now one year behind schedule.  Now, Elias didn’t do enough to put this team over the top.   It’s amazing how the people who were wrong about everything are still so sure about everything.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

People complained that Elias couldn’t find nuggets for nothing. They complained we couldn’t develop any of the young pitching.  They complained he would play the service time game on Henderson and every other prospect.   Everyone said this was a 60 to 75 win team at best and the original plan to contend in 2023 was now one year behind schedule.  Now, Elias didn’t do enough to put this team over the top.   It’s amazing how the people who were wrong about everything are still so sure about everything.

Did Elias do everything he could before and during this season to be even better than they were and put this team in even better position to make the playoffs?

Its a simple yes or no question.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Sports Guy

[Frobby]

By the way, now 0.7 rWAR, 0.6 fWAR for Gunnar in 15 games.  

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

By the way, now 0.7 rWAR, 0.6 fWAR for Gunnar in 15 games.  

Yea but he wouldn’t have helped us if we brought him up sooner.  No way!

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but he wouldn’t have helped us if we brought him up sooner.  No way!

He wasn't ready.  He'd have been crushed mentally.

[SteveA]

33 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Did Elias do everything he could before and during this season to be even better than they were and put this team in even better position to make the playoffs?

Its a simple yes or no question.  

It's not so simple.   He could have gone out and signed another free agent starter.   That might have been a great success, or it could have been someone like Kikuchi. 

Instead there were starting spots open and guys like Bradish and Kremer have been able to step up and seize them.

There's no way to tell if we would have been better or not if he had "done everything he could".   He might have signed a guy who was better than anyone we have, or he might have signed a Kikuchi and put him out there for 25 starts and we would have been worse.

He could have signed another veteran infielder which might have looked like a good move on paper but having that guy might have prevented Urias or Mateo from ever showing what they can do in the majors.

Could he have made better signings than Chirinos and Odor?   Sure, definitely, in hindsight.   But those were good faith efforts to make the team better that may or may not have.   He could have made more such efforts, and they might have worked or they might have failed, but either way they could have prevented us from seeing what other guys can do such as Urias, Mateo, etc.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, SteveA said:

It's not so simple.   He could have gone out and signed another free agent starter.   That might have been a great success, or it could have been someone like Kikuchi. 

Instead there were starting spots open and guys like Bradish and Kremer have been able to step up and seize them.

There's no way to tell if we would have been better or not if he had "done everything he could".   He might have signed a guy who was better than anyone we have, or he might have signed a Kikuchi and put him out there for 25 starts and we would have been worse.

He could have signed another veteran infielder which might have looked like a good move on paper but having that guy might have prevented Urias or Mateo from ever showing what they can do in the majors.

Could he have made better signings than Chirinos and Odor?   Sure, definitely, in hindsight.   But those were good faith efforts to make the team better that may or may not have.   He could have made more such efforts, and they might have worked or they might have failed, but either way they could have prevented us from seeing what other guys can do such as Urias, Mateo, etc.

You are only talking before the season and you aren’t including bringing Adley up last year.

And what about during the year?  Did he do everything he could to maximize this team? 
 

And if you are going to credit him for finding scrap heap guys, you mean to tell me he couldn’t evaluate legit, established talent?

Edited September 17, 2022 by Sports Guy