O's on the edge of contention in July

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Daddy-O's said:

Houston did sign Verlander when it was time to bolster the starting pitching

That’s not the question I asked.

The FA class is pretty underwhelming.  

[Daddy-O's]

I think Musgrove is the guy that makes the most sense

[foxfield]

35 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Remember when the Orioles traded six years of Eduardo Rodriguez for 27 innings of Andrew Miller? They lost that trade 15-1.  That's what I don't want them to be on the wrong side of this year, not when the very likely case is they don't even get a wildcard birth.  At least the 2014 Orioles were a 96-win team with a real shot.

I get that its unlikely Mancini and/or Santander brings back a piece.  But then remember that Bud Norris cost Josh "534 Ks in 312 innings" Hader and additional stuff. Lost that trade about 12-1.

 

23 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Just make sure they don't stand pat and pass on an Eduardo Rodriguez or Josh Hader.

This is the thing to remember.  We do have players and we are playing well....we should be looking to acquire Eduardo Rodriquezs and Josh Haders.  If that costs Tate and Santander and/or Mancini....fine.  Making moves does not end the opportunity for success in 2022.  But pursuing the right deals, for these guys can make us better in the long run for sure and potentially with call ups...now.

It's a really good opportunity to maximize something for other teams.  The Mets, the Padres and even the Dodgers need help.  The Yankees do also.  Land SP and this team is arguable better today and next year.....That would be my goal and I would be maximizing the names above.  

I would even move all three to the same team for the right return.  Would I move someone from the farm?  Yep, but I would start with the guys above.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Daddy-O's said:

I think Musgrove is the guy that makes the most sense

He will be 30 next year.  He will be coming off back to back very good years and likely looking at a big contract, unless he really falls off in the second half.

He misses bats but not at an overly high level.  K rate is down this year.  Keeps the ball down but not a huge GB rate.

I’m not sure I see a guy I want to give a 4+ Year $25+M contract.

[Daddy-O's]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He will be 30 next year.  He will be coming off back to back very good years and likely looking at a big contract, unless he really falls off in the second half.

He misses bats but not at an overly high level.  K rate is down this year.  Keeps the ball down but not a huge GB rate.

I’m not sure I see a guy I want to give a 4+ Year $25+M contract.

I agree but the payroll is such that they could take that chance

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Daddy-O's said:

I agree but the payroll is such that they could take that chance

You can definitely take the chance.  But is Musgrove the guy to take that chance with?

How much can the lower K rate and drop in missed bats be attributed to going away from the pitcher hitting?  

[LA2]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Remember when the Orioles traded six years of Eduardo Rodriguez for 27 innings of Andrew Miller? They lost that trade 15-1.  That's what I don't want them to be on the wrong side of this year, not when the very likely case is they don't even get a wildcard birth.  At least the 2014 Orioles were a 96-win team with a real shot.

I get that its unlikely Mancini and/or Santander brings back a piece.  But then remember that Bud Norris cost Josh "534 Ks in 312 innings" Hader and additional stuff. Lost that trade about 12-1.

Getting Gerardo Parra for Zach "4.13 ERA over 170 starts" Davies was also a laugher.

Miller and Norris did help us get into the playoffs, sweep the Tigers in the first round, and battle the Royals in a series that we lost by only 6 runs over 4 games. It goes without saying that there are those who believe that our run in 2014 was worth the loss of two then-prospects. Norris was 15-8 that season for the O's and beating the Tigers would have been a lot more difficult if it had been Miller and not Joba Chamberlain or Joakim Soria we were facing (it's commonly believed that Miller would have fallen to the Tigers if not the Orioles). Even in the following KC series, Miller provided three excellent shutout relief appearances. The plan worked in 2014 because it almost got us into the World Series, which would have been an absolute crowning achievement. Not so in the case of Parra the following season.

[LA2]

1 hour ago, foxfield said:

 

This is the thing to remember.  We do have players and we are playing well....we should be looking to acquire Eduardo Rodriquezs and Josh Haders.  If that costs Tate and Santander and/or Mancini....fine.  Making moves does not end the opportunity for success in 2022.  But pursuing the right deals, for these guys can make us better in the long run for sure and potentially with call ups...now.

It's a really good opportunity to maximize something for other teams.  The Mets, the Padres and even the Dodgers need help.  The Yankees do also.  Land SP and this team is arguable better today and next year.....That would be my goal and I would be maximizing the names above.  

I would even move all three to the same team for the right return.  Would I move someone from the farm?  Yep, but I would start with the guys above.

Wait a minute, do you actually think teams in contention would give up an immediately helpful starting pitcher for the likes of Santander or Mancini? Rodriguez didn't pitch in the majors in 2014 and Hader's star didn't rise for another 2.5 seasons, in 2017.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Remember when the Orioles traded six years of Eduardo Rodriguez for 27 innings of Andrew Miller? They lost that trade 15-1.  That's what I don't want them to be on the wrong side of this year, not when the very likely case is they don't even get a wildcard birth.  At least the 2014 Orioles were a 96-win team with a real shot.

I get that its unlikely Mancini and/or Santander brings back a piece.  But then remember that Bud Norris cost Josh "534 Ks in 312 innings" Hader and additional stuff. Lost that trade about 12-1.

Don’t forget Davies for Parra.

[blid]

3 hours ago, Daddy-O's said:

You do not get nothing, you get two months of a good bat and strong veteran leadership.  If Mancini's next two months are nothing why would anyone trade for him.

I think what this winning streak changes for me is I'd no longer move Mancini "just to get something back."  Seeing if anything happens in those next two months you're advocating for is worth more to me than some low ranked prospects or whatever, whereas when we were sitting in the cellar that wasn't the case.

Same for Jorge Lopez.  If I'm still trading him I want to get something quite nice back, otherwise forget it, because he can do good things for us here.

[Daddy-O's]

Okay I realize this is crazy and fully expect a bunch of laughing emojis'.  What does it take to get 2 months of Degrom? 

[tntoriole]

22 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Getting Gerardo Parra for Zach "4.13 ERA over 170 starts" Davies was also a laugher.

Miller and Norris did help us get into the playoffs, sweep the Tigers in the first round, and battle the Royals in a series that we lost by only 6 runs over 4 games. It goes without saying that there are those who believe that our run in 2014 was worth the loss of two then-prospects. Norris was 15-8 that season for the O's and beating the Tigers would have been a lot more difficult if it had been Miller and not Joba Chamberlain or Joakim Soria we were facing (it's commonly believed that Miller would have fallen to the Tigers if not the Orioles). Even in the following KC series, Miller provided three excellent shutout relief appearances. The plan worked in 2014 because it almost got us into the World Series, which is a crowning achievement. Not so in the case of Parra the following season.

I agree with this.  Was fine then and fine now with the Miller and Norris acquisitions.  Andrew Miller then was maybe the nastiest type I have ever seen.  The winter of 2014 was the huge area of discontent for me.. acquiring nobody of any talent and not re-signing Nelson Cruz.   That was the real beginning of the subsequent collapse. 

[foxfield]

40 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Wait a minute, do you actually think teams in contention would give up immediately helpful starting pitcher for the likes of Santander or Mancini? Rodriguez didn't pitch in the majors in 2014 and Hader's star didn't rise for another 2.5 seasons, in 2017.

Fair point. But yea I think we could snag a young starter with those guys. Might we have to give up something else. Maybe. Marlins and Dodgers both have minor league pitchers who are very near ready. San Diego rumored to want to move Snell. Who is not young but would have 2 years. 
 

My point is that teams in contention DO give up helpful pieces. Might that require more than Santander/Mancini/Tate?  I don’t know, but that’s what I think Elias is trying to find out. 

[JimGinSP]

Interrupting the trade talk, looking ahead at the MLB schedule, the NYY’s only get a three day all star break (we get four).
NYY’s open by playing a 1pm/6pm doubleheader in Houston on Thursday before coming to Baltimore Friday.
Houston manager Dusty Baker will be managing 6 NYY players in the ASG.

Interesting scenarios with Cole and Cortes both in ASG.  

[25 Nuggets]

Stopping by to keep my word and congratulate the Orioles for reaching the .500 mark this late in the season.