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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

If Snell had been in our organization, Tony would have written 15,000 words by now about how we should turn him into Arthur Rhodes.  And he'd probably be right.

He's had one season, otherwordly sure, where he's actually been good.  And yeah, a lot of that is availability.  Are we to believe he'll be healthier as he gets older and more injured continue to pile up?

Santander has had amazing availability in his career.  Definitely should be bringing that up.  

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Can_of_corn
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How exactly is replacing Tate with Hall and Santander with Stowers punting the season? I'd much rather have Hall out there than Tate and Santander isn't anything special. My guess is that Ad

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

Aside from the known volatility of relief pitcher performance from year to year?

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

I'm not. Just like I'm not sure Santander isn't going to put up a negative WAR the rest of the season. You don't take a 2% chance to make the playoffs and base decisions around it.  Santande

Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sports Guy said:

Your commitment to being clueless is even more impressive.

The idea that you think Stowers plus Snell is worse than Santander is horrible.

Maybe you are also Wildcard and are obsessed with the recent sample size.

We already have Stowers.  We don't need to trade for Snell to use Stowers.  It's not part of the equation.  Of course you try to make it a part of the equation, because your proposed equation is wildly out of balance.

So you consider the last four years to be a small sample size?

That's..... a take.  Clearly a cluefull take too.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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11 minutes ago, Pickles said:

The threads good.  This should be our most interesting- not necessarily active- deadlines since Elias got here.

There's a million different ways to go, and that's why there are so many opinions.

But I am infinitely puzzled by the fetishization of Snell.

I don't think anyone's fetishizing him.  I wouldn't mind if we got him depending on what was given up.

The interest in Snell stems from the fact that he's got AL East experience.  I'd say people more fetishize the "OMG HE HAD SUCCESS IN THE AL EAST" aspect more than anything.  It's not because Snell is a good pitcher, it's because he's done well in the division and people seem to think that is huge.  I'm willing to bet that if Snell hadn't played for the Rays and was just some dude who'd never set foot in the AL East, there wouldn't be this amount of interest.

His FIP, as mentioned earlier is 3.56.  He strikes out a lot of batters.  The walks are concerning, but I think he does a decent job of keeping the ball in the park and he's hard to hit.  

He's a good pitcher.  I don't think anyone thinks that he's the Cy Young pitcher that he was in 2017, that seems to be a bit of an outlier.  But he makes this team better.

Now, he talks like he's got 3 functioning braincells and appears to be a doofus.  As a guy, I don't like him.  But I'd take a team full of convicted felons if it meant a World Series.  

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Santander has had amazing availability in his career.  Definitely should be bringing that up.  

And yet, his four months this season have been more valuable than any season of Snell's entire career, save for the Cy Young year.

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think anyone's fetishizing him.  I wouldn't mind if we got him depending on what was given up.

The interest in Snell stems from the fact that he's got AL East experience.  I'd say people more fetishize the "OMG HE HAD SUCCESS IN THE AL EAST" aspect more than anything.  It's not because Snell is a good pitcher, it's because he's done well in the division and people seem to think that is huge.  I'm willing to bet that if Snell hadn't played for the Rays and was just some dude who'd never set foot in the AL East, there wouldn't be this amount of interest.

His FIP, as mentioned earlier is 3.56.  He strikes out a lot of batters.  The walks are concerning, but I think he does a decent job of keeping the ball in the park and he's hard to hit.  

He's a good pitcher.  I don't think anyone thinks that he's the Cy Young pitcher that he was in 2017, that seems to be a bit of an outlier.  But he makes this team better.

Now, he talks like he's got 3 functioning braincells and appears to be a doofus.  As a guy, I don't like him.  But I'd take a team full of convicted felons if it meant a World Series.  

I think it's the Rays thing and people actually know who he is.  If he pitched in Milwaukee people here would be a lot less aware of him.

He's not a bad pitcher.; he's clearly talented. He's probably a bad target though, considering his current team is going all in to win, and want to dump at the same time.  They clearly don't think he's doing much to help them win.

He's expensive.  He's hurt all the time.  And his last four seasons, and really his entire career with one exception, has been fairly pedestrian.

If he was passing through waivers, maybe- MAYBE- you could convince me to take on his salary.

But giving up a cost-controlled and solid young major leaguer like Santander, no.  That's insanity.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

We already have Stowers.  We don't need to trade for Snell to use Stowers.  It's not part of the equation.  Of course you try to make it a part of the equation, because your proposed equation is wildly out of balance.

So you consider the last four years to be a small sample size?

That's..... a take.  Clearly a cluefull take too.

Of course it’s part of it.  You make room for him, room that I believe we have now but obviously the team doesn’t.

But fine, if you want to take him out.

Santander has a career fWAR of 2.7, with about half coming this year (and a lot of that the last month I bet).  Snell has a career WAR of 14.7.

We are a team loaded with OF prospects and basically nothing pitching.

Snell has high K rates, an FIP of under 4 for 4 of the last 5 years.  He misses bats at a high rate.

The issues for him are walk rate(was better in Tampa) and the lack of innings.  However, he’s not being paid that much money.  I agree about the injury issues (same issue for Santander) but you aren’t going to trade your best prospects for pitching and the team isn’t going to spend major dollars over the long term to bring in pitching.  Snell represents a high upside and Santander is an extremely minimal cost to acquire that upside.

He is a clear and obvious upgrade for our pitching staff and he’s a better player than Santander.  The only reason this can even be remotely discussed is because of the Padres money situation, something the Orioles don’t have an issue with.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Pickles said:

I think it's the Rays thing and people actually know who he is.  If he pitched in Milwaukee people here would be a lot less aware of him.

He's not a bad pitcher.; he's clearly talented. He's probably a bad target though, considering his current team is going all in to win, and want to dump at the same time.  They clearly don't think he's doing much to help them win.

He's expensive.  He's hurt all the time.  And his last four seasons, and really his entire career with one exception, has been fairly pedestrian.

If he was passing through waivers, maybe- MAYBE- you could convince me to take on his salary.

But giving up a cost-controlled and solid young major leaguer like Santander, no.  That's insanity.

That's fine.  And I'm assuming there's nothing that could be said to convince you otherwise.

I will say that I don't think either one of these players is a lynchpin for their respective teams success moving forward.  Santander isn't a centerpiece, he's a nice player.  I think Snell is a good pitcher.  Neither one are core guys and therefore replaceable.  

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

And yet, his four months this season have been more valuable than any season of Snell's entire career, save for the Cy Young year.

Snell has 5 seasons worth of fWAR that are higher than Santander this year and he is .2 behind him this year despite playing a lot less.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's fine.  And I'm assuming there's nothing that could be said to convince you otherwise.

I will say that I don't think either one of these players is a lynchpin for their respective teams success moving forward.  Santander isn't a centerpiece, he's a nice player.  I think Snell is a good pitcher.  Neither one are core guys and therefore replaceable.  

Snell has been and can be a core guy.  Santander isn’t.  

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Also - and I can't believe I'm actually saying this- I'd like to see what the Orioles could do with Snell from a coaching/analytics perspective.  

Sure.  He has incredible stuff..some of the best in the sport.  I also think you are wrong that people only want him because he was on Tampa.  Yes, we saw him more than if he was on Arizona but the stats are what they are.

Santander isn’t a guy that brings back much in trade.  Teams aren’t trading real prospects for him.  He’s very replaceable in our system.  If the Pads would make this move, you jump on it.  

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