Will the Orioles eventually increase payroll significantly?

[deward]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

All baseball decisions are gambles.

Whether you're signing a player to a huge decade-long contract, or trading a player for multiple prospects.

We tried our hand at a huge decade-long contract... didn't work out so well.

Seems like ownership learned something valuable from that.

So they hired a GM to devise a different strategy. One that plays out kinda slowly.

But we're nearing the end of the prep phase, and entering the fruitful phase.

The club really doesn't seem to have an interest in squandering the hard won progress by rushing out to sign another 10 year mega-deal.

And in spite of that, will field a contender in the toughest division in baseball for the foreseeable future.

Some people are OK with that.

You seem to have confused my position at some point. I'm not advocating for them to go spend like drunken sailors. You've been arguing that they should never spend premium money, and always live off developing stars and then trading them in their prime. I'm arguing that a) that model won't work as well as you seem to think, and b) it won't sell tickets. 

And let's not get ahead of ourselves, they aren't a contender yet.

[deward]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

Thankfully, their execution of a sane baseball strategy doesn't require you to believe them, or acknowledge their motives.

Fine, have it your way, enjoy your unwarranted optimism. Have a good evening.

[Sports Guy]

The payroll is going to be low for a while.  
 

Adley, Mountcastle, GRod, Hall, Bautista, Urias, Mateo, Cowser, Stowers, Henderson, Westburg, Handley, Perez, akin, etc…none of them are making any money and won’t be for quite some time.

Even the “expensive guys” like Mullins aren’t really going to cost much for a while.  Means is cheap.  

They aren’t going to spend huge dollars on starting pitching and they may not do it for any position players.  They may add the Tommy Phams of the world but that’s about it.

So, I don’t think the payroll is going to be high for a while…and I think that’s fine.  Of course, that assumes players develop and stay healthy, which is probably a poor assumption.

They should be looking to put some guys together in a package for a higher end starter.

I feel confident in saying we will not be fielding a totally home grown team that wins.  

 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, deward said:

Speaking for myself, I have no interest in that model. I don't want the O's to become Tampa Bay. I don't care if that model works in Tampa, I don't want the constant roster churn, where every good player is just ticking down to being traded to a higher spending club. That isn't enjoyable for me. I want to watch a core grow and develop together, with a select few that stay for the bulk of their careers. Old-fashioned, perhaps, but that's the type of fandom that I enjoy. I don't want to lather, rinse, and repeat every year. You can keep that, thank you.

Well, our model is going to be closer to the Rays’ than it is to the Yankees’, so get used to it.  By the way, Tampa does occasionally pick a player to center its franchise around.  They gave Longoria two long term deals (though he eventually was traded during the second one) and locked up Franco for a decade.  We’ll probably hold onto a few more guys than Tampa but we’re not going to pay every good player FA prices.  

[Sports Guy]

I’m all for a hybrid model of Tampa.  Let’s face it, most players aren’t worth a FA contract and most aren’t worth keeping beyond 29 years old.   

Os fans are largely obsessed with Mountcastle but he should be gone within 2 years.  He’s just not worth keeping around as he gets expensive.  That has nothing to do with not spending money. It’s about having the best possible team and using your assets in the best possible way.

That’s the harsh truth and one that if you live by, you will come out ahead far more often than not.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Are you suggesting those moves were done with the primary (or even significant) intention of shedding payroll?

I'd say the Mancini move had a tertiary motivation.

I'm sure he'd have rather not paid him than paid him.

[Sydnor]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, our model is going to be closer to the Rays’ than it is to the Yankees’, so get used to it.  By the way, Tampa does occasionally pick a player to center its franchise around.  They gave Longoria two long term deals (though he eventually was traded during the second one) and locked up Franco for a decade.  We’ll probably hold onto a few more guys than Tampa but we’re not going to pay every good player FA prices.  

I know that the answer is “I don’t know,” so I am really only asking for a guess when I ask this question. What do you think the upper limit is for the Orioles? Minnesota is around $140 million. Milwaukee and Detroit are in the $130 million range. I’d guess that they could run a $120-$130 million payroll comfortably, but that’s a guess. 

The point on Tampa extensions is commonly ignored. They also tried to sign Freddie Freeman and may have offered more on an AAV basis than the Dodgers.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, owknows said:

By your own admission...  Elias wants to win.

And of course Ownership.. Hired Mike Elias... and made him the highest paid GM in the history of baseball when he was hired...

Because they want to... lose.

Because reasons and stuff.

First off he's not a GM, he's an Executive Vice President so his compensation should be judged against his actual peers.

Secondly, where are you getting highest paid GM in history?

Is it this tweet calling him the highest paid first year GM?  I would assume that natural inflationary pressure would cause this "record" to be broken on a fairly regular basis.

https://www.12up.com/posts/6224605-orioles-officially-hire-mike-elias-as-highest-paid-first-year-general-manager-in-mlb-history
 

You don't actually think that Elias makes more than Cashman do you?

I've never actually seen any contracts specifics.

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Sydnor said:

I know that the answer is “I don’t know,” so I am really only asking for a guess when I ask this question. What do you think the upper limit is for the Orioles? Minnesota is around $140 million. Milwaukee and Detroit are in the $130 million range. I’d guess that they could run a $120-$130 million payroll comfortably, but that’s a guess. 

 

In 2016 the Oriole payroll was $147 million

in 2017 it was $167 million

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, owknows said:

In 2016 the Oriole payroll was $147 million

in 2017 it was $167 million

Different ownership.

Honest question, how do you think the law firm is doing?

[owknows]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

First off he's not a GM, he's an Executive Vice President so his compensation should be judged against his actual peers.

 

Rolling eyes

[owknows]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Different ownership.

 

Yes of course... it was Angelos.  Not Angelos

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Honest question, how do you think the law firm is doing?

Asbestos sorta played out.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, owknows said:

Rolling eyes

I notice how you failed to quote the rest...

Did you misread the Twitter post I referenced?

Do you have actual contract information?

Do you think he makes more than Cashman?

Go ahead and roll your eyes.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, owknows said:

Asbestos sorta played out.

As is tobacco.