Cubs trade DeRosa to Indians; Does this mean Pie for Olson back on??

[amateurfan]

Most of us have said 2011 is when we should compete. What's that, a little more than three years?

As Frobby noted, at the end of 2010 we'll have a good idea what's up.

The good news for us if we fire him is that there's little doubt that the work he's done in infrastructuring, scouting, international/global presence will continue to pay dividends.

The fact is, by all accounts, MacPhail doesn't see himself as the long-term answer. Thus, our conception of MacPhail's strengths, and his own, align pretty neatly.

I agree that he's done a good job with international scouting. I don't know if player development in the minors is actually improving (anyone know of an article or can someone articulate it well). I have to give Flannagan the nod for improving domestic scouting however. AM also improved one of the team's Latin American complexes.

[mweb]

Most of us have said 2011 is when we should compete. What's that, a little more than three years?

As Frobby noted, at the end of 2010 we'll have a good idea what's up.

The good news for us if we fire him is that there's little doubt that the work he's done in infrastructuring, scouting, international/global presence will continue to pay dividends.

The fact is, by all accounts, MacPhail doesn't see himself as the long-term answer. Thus, our conception of MacPhail's strengths, and his own, align pretty neatly.

Now we need to sign some top international amateurs. Looking at the Mets top 20 list from Sickels was rather upsetting from an O's fans perspective. Their top 2 prospects along with their #6 and #7 prospects were amateur free agents, it would be great if the O's had guys like that in our system.

[Amazin]

No this means Peavy to Cubs.

Miles was signed to take DeRosa's place...

This also means no Roberts to Indians...

Not only have the Cubs passed on Roberts, but they've now screwed the O's by taking away Cleveland as a landing spot.

What's wrong with Roberts for Garko & DeRosa

[Lucky Jim]

Jim, are you on vacation? You're worse than me. I figure Frobby is older and he's probably got some serious seniority going. How come you're able to post on here so much? Don't you have hours to bill, young man?

Slow couple of days (and a bit of procrastination.) Don't tell anyone.

[estherhouse]

Has it ever ocurred to you that maybe just maybe he hasn't tried????? Did you stop to think that that could possibly have happpened? Or are just content to blindly support the FO every chance you get?

Did your "sources" tell you this BB?

[33rdst]

Originally Posted by bigbird

Because we've not doing anything to upgrade the talent in this system and get better. We're going on the cheap and putting more money in PGA's pocket. That's why.

I am with you here bigbird!

I have to say Belkast I find this comment astounding. For someone who kept me glued to the screen during the Teixeira negotiations with comments like, "PA Wants to win Now" and the "WOW" offer, how do you justify throwing him inder the bus with this remark.

[Singleton]

Would you trade Hayden Penn for Ryan Garko right now???

People are becoming hysterical. I think many want to see trades made just for the sake of making changes.

People start floating crazy trade ideas that generate a large number of posts until others start believing it is a real proposal and when it doesn't happen blame AM for not making the move. The reason Penn will not be traded for Garko is because the Indians aren't stupid enough to do it. No GM is.

Look, any objective person (the entire national media) would say the O's the outlook is MUCH brighter than it has been in some time. AM inherited a complete disaster. He had very little to work with. He traded his best pitcher (who had had only 1 good year) in what appears to be the best trade the team has made in decades. He traded his best hitter -- a shortstop on the decline -- for a solid package of players. He held onto his catcher for one more year and cashed him in for a decent haul. And yet, he gets the rep as being slow to act?

The only real chip he hasn't dealt is Roberts and I'm amazed at all the fuss. The deal he supposedly dithered on was with the Cubs and one year later do we really think it was THAT good an offer? I know there are a few who think we should have taken it (I'm on the other side) but was it that good that we should bash AM for passing on it. Yes, he still hasn't dealt him. Isn't it clear there is no market when Orlando Hudson (not as good but not chopped liver) is dangling on the vine waiting for an offer? DeRosa (also not as good but decent) gets traded for a package of nothing. Swisher (better than Scott) gets traded for a utility infielder and garbage. The trade market is NOT what people on her pretend it to be.

And why the love for Jim Hendry of all people? He could have offered more for Roberts and closed the deal but chose not to. We'll never know if Roberts may have had a few hits in the postseason that changed things. He couldn't close the deal for Peavy. Isn't he a dawdler?

Yes, it would be swell if the O's had a great prospect at every position in place. If we did, we'd be the friggin' TB Rays of 2008 and we're not. I admit that I would have liked to see a few more "minor" moves that would have brought in more players with upside but the tone of the criticism is out of proportion, IMO. We've got the makings of an outstanding outfield, a fabulous catcher and some darn fine pitching. That's a great start. Maybe B. Snyder is ready in 2010. The team says it wants to extend Roberts (hope not). Maybe we keep Mora for an extra year (at a lower price). And that would be your 2010 infield. It's not that tough to imagine. I hope we do much better but lets not flip out.

[Scrat1]

What's wrong with Roberts for Garko & DeRosa

I'd rather have Laffey and DeRosa.

[Shopay]

People are becoming hysterical. I think many want to see trades made just for the sake of making changes.

People start floating crazy trade ideas that generate a large number of posts until others start believing it is a real proposal and when it doesn't happen blame AM for not making the move. The reason Penn will not be traded for Garko is because the Indians aren't stupid enough to do it. No GM is.

Look, any objective person (the entire national media) would say the O's the outlook is MUCH brighter than it has been in some time. AM inherited a complete disaster. He had very little to work with. He traded his best pitcher (who had had only 1 good year) in what appears to be the best trade the team has made in decades. He traded his best hitter -- a shortstop on the decline -- for a solid package of players. He held onto his catcher for one more year and cashed him in for a decent haul. And yet, he gets the rep as being slow to act?

The only real chip he hasn't dealt is Roberts and I'm amazed at all the fuss. The deal he supposedly dithered on was with the Cubs and one year later do we really think it was THAT good an offer? I know there are a few who think we should have taken it (I'm on the other side) but was it that good that we should bash AM for passing on it. Yes, he still hasn't dealt him. Isn't it clear there is no market when Orlando Hudson (not as good but not chopped liver) is dangling on the vine waiting for an offer? DeRosa (also not as good but decent) gets traded for a package of nothing. Swisher (better than Scott) gets traded for a utility infielder and garbage. The trade market is NOT what people on her pretend it to be.

And why the love for Jim Hendry of all people? He could have offered more for Roberts and closed the deal but chose not to. We'll never know if Roberts may have had a few hits in the postseason that changed things. He couldn't close the deal for Peavy. Isn't he a dawdler?

Yes, it would be swell if the O's had a great prospect at every position in place. If we did, we'd be the friggin' TB Rays of 2008 and we're not. I admit that I would have liked to see a few more "minor" moves that would have brought in more players with upside but the tone of the criticism is out of proportion, IMO. We've got the makings of an outstanding outfield, a fabulous catcher and some darn fine pitching. That's a great start. Maybe B. Snyder is ready in 2010. The team says it wants to extend Roberts (hope not). Maybe we keep Mora for an extra year (at a lower price). And that would be your 2010 infield. It's not that tough to imagine. I hope we do much better but lets not flip out.

Nice post. I completely agree about some posters overhyping the trade market.

[carolinaoriole]

Because we've not doing anything to upgrade the talent in this system and get better. We're going on the cheap and putting more money in PGA's pocket. That's why.

If I am wrong please correct me, But I thought that our system has improved over the past couple of years.

[allstar1579]

Therein lies the rub.

Penn truly has had very little trade value for about two years now - in other words, since prior to the arrival of MacPhail.

If anyone should be faulted for not trading Penn while he still had value (your implication, not mine) it should be one of:

Jim Beattie

Mike Flanagan

Jim Duquette

As for the current plan, if it is in fact "the plan," it has been in place since well before the arrival of MacPhail.

Penn should have been dealt with Bigbie for Burnett and Lowell. Hindsight is 20/20 though, and at this point I would most definitely deal him for Garko, or any other area where we are lacking in depth since we have a pool of similar talent to throw out there at SP.

[Fairfax Bird]

Therein lies the rub.

Penn truly has had very little trade value for about two years now - in other words, since prior to the arrival of MacPhail.

If anyone should be faulted for not trading Penn while he still had value (your implication, not mine) it should be one of:

Jim Beattie

Mike Flanagan

Jim Duquette

As for the current plan, if it is in fact "the plan," it has been in place since well before the arrival of MacPhail.

I understand throwing Beattie and Flanagan under the bus, but not Duquette, why man did you throw Duquette under the bus? He was our savior, now we are held hostage.

[carolinaoriole]

BB has a point. I know people here want to believe things are getting better. Not really. Since AM has arrived things have gotten worse than better. Im curious as to what the Cubs gave to Miles. After BB's thread the other night said we werent offering enough years and money. Heyyyyy sounds like the same deal we are going through with our star rightfielder!!!

I guess it is how one decides to see things.

I think things are better with A.M.

[jjdman]

Dude it's not only about being offered fair value for our players. It's targeting another teams player then maybe dealing some of our prospects. When is the last time we acquired talent that way? Sosa?? I don't know but that seems to be a street we don't go down.

Benson. How did that work out?

[Roll Tide]

Benson. How did that work out?

Benson was a good move when it was made. Its easy to look back already knowing the results & criticizing. No one could have predicted the inujury & lost season when the move was made. John Maine turned out to be a nice NL starter. Many here acted like the Orioles traded away the second coming of Maddux. Which Maine certainly is not!