"Moves that completely befuddle us" 2022-23 offseason edition

[wildcard]

15 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 because these moves are giving us a glimpse of the organization's priorities after the season.

Gee, I hope not.

I think of the moves made up till now as housekeeping.

Edited October 22, 2022 by wildcard

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The thought process of "Eh, who cares right now" also bugs me because these moves are giving us a glimpse of the organization's priorities after the season.

That is the question. Those of us who aren't up in arms are not reading anything into it other than the Cincinnati catchers are better than the pitcher we got rid of and they want to somehow keep Bemboom for depth. You're seeing big flashing warning signs (of what, I'm not sure), I'm withholding judgment to see how it plays out. If you are right you will get to say "I told you so."

[Tony-OH]

37 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

That is the question. Those of us who aren't up in arms are not reading anything into it other than the Cincinnati catchers are better than the pitcher we got rid of and they want to somehow keep Bemboom for depth. You're seeing big flashing warning signs (of what, I'm not sure), I'm withholding judgment to see how it plays out. If you are right you will get to say "I told you so."

Actually, I have zero issues with adding the Cincinnati catchers. I have major issues with anyone's baseball acumen who thinks Bemboom is a guy you concern yourself over enough to add him to the 40-man roster and try to keep from other teams.

Bemboom is a minor league free agent guy who you give a minor league contract to and offer a spring training invite at best.  

You guys crack me up. They added a 33-year old catcher who has never hit in the majors and hasn't even put up good minor league numbers!!!!! But you guys are like, eh, the genius knows what he's doing. Sorry, I don't buy it and yes, I have concerns over an organization that covets players like Bemboom and Cave.

Heck, they already have Cam Gallagher on the 40-man. Even if they wanted Bemboom as depth, there is no way anyone can convince me he's coveted by other teams so much that they had to act on him right away. 

The fact that they claimed two other potential backups that are probably better than Bemboom shows how easy it is to find AAA-type potential back up catchers. Not to mention they have Maverick Handley in AA who fits the same mold. 

Also, let's not forget, this is team that started Odor all year and felt Aguilar was a better play than Stowers. They are not infallible at all.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

They are not infallible at all.

He did trade away a guy that has put up 9.7 rWAR in four seasons for a...let me look it up...Tyler Herb.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

He did trade away a guy that has put up 9.7 rWAR in four seasons for a...let me look it up...Tyler Herb.

And released Evan Phillips from AAA who was immediately signed by Tampa and ended the year pitching in the World Series for the Dodgers. Crazy how Tampa and the Dodgers liked a guy that Elias' regime tossed away like trash.

They also released Josh Rogers last year and kept guys like Tom Eshleman to eat innings in 2021. 

So people need to realize that while there is good, the talent evaluation and moves are not infallible and that we should absolutely question the ones that look "questionable".

Claiming Cave is questionable, but adding a 33-year old back up catcher who has never hit in the majors league to the 40-man makes zero sense in any shape or form.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

And released Evan Phillips from AAA who was immediately signed by Tampa and ended the year pitching in the World Series for the Dodgers. Crazy how Tampa and the Dodgers liked a guy that Elias' regime tossed away like trash.

They also released Josh Rogers last year and kept guys like Tom Eshleman to eat innings in 2021. 

So people need to realize that while there is good, the talent evaluation and moves are not infallible and that we should absolutely question the ones that look "questionable".

Claiming Cave is questionable, but adding a 33-year old back up catcher who has never hit in the majors league to the 40-man makes zero sense in any shape or form.

Tampa had him for like 3 days and designated him for assignment.   Then the Dodgers claimed him.    Not exactly a love affair with Tampa Bay.

Somebody's trash (Mateo, Voth, Urias) is somebody elses starter.   The opposite happened with Phillips and Yaz.   Happens all of the time in baseball.   Some of it is talent evaluation.  Some of it is adjustments made by the new team.   And some of it is being in the right place at the right time.   I'm sure the Orioles felt Phillips had talent.    In two years with the Orioles he had 60 strikeouts in 42 IP.  But overall he stunk.

You can criticize Elias for these moves all you want.  He's fair game.  Still seems a little early to get too up in arms but have it at.

[Aristotelian]

22 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

And released Evan Phillips from AAA who was immediately signed by Tampa and ended the year pitching in the World Series for the Dodgers. Crazy how Tampa and the Dodgers liked a guy that Elias' regime tossed away like trash.

They also released Josh Rogers last year and kept guys like Tom Eshleman to eat innings in 2021. 

So people need to realize that while there is good, the talent evaluation and moves are not infallible and that we should absolutely question the ones that look "questionable".

Claiming Cave is questionable, but adding a 33-year old back up catcher who has never hit in the majors league to the 40-man makes zero sense in any shape or form.

 

Absolutely no one has said Elias is infallible. To me the question is whether he has acquired more nuggets than he has let get away and I would characterize his track record as very solid. Expecting every move to work out is ridiculously high and we could all add to your list of ones that haven't (Aguilar etc).

As for Bemboom, I will be extremely upset if he is on the 40 man for the Rule 5 and causes us to lose Denoyer. I have confidence this will not be the case. I do agree with the initial description of befuddling, it's a weird.move.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Tampa had him for like 3 days and designated him for assignment.   Then the Dodgers claimed him.    Not exactly a love affair with Tampa Bay.

Somebody's trash (Mateo, Voth, Urias) is somebody elses starter.   The opposite happened with Phillips and Yaz.   Happens all of the time in baseball.   Some of it is talent evaluation.  Some of it is adjustments made by the new team.   And some of it is being in the right place at the right time.   I'm sure the Orioles felt Phillips had talent.    In two years with the Orioles he had 60 strikeouts in 42 IP.  But overall he stunk.

You can criticize Elias for these moves all you want.  He's fair game.  Still seems a little early to get too up in arms but have it at.

You obviously missed the point like a few others, including anyone who up votes this comment. Look, I'm tired of explaining my point over and over again.

I pointed out where Elias and his evaluators are not infallible. I never said they were terrible. But some of you are such a love affair after last year you now have deified Elias to the point that adding a 33-year old back up catcher to his 40-man roster is met with thumbs ups by some of you. 

I do think Elias and company have done some good things and identified some players off waivers that have become good parts of the bullpen, but other teams find these guy too including teams in the World Series with Elias castaways.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

 

Absolutely no one has said Elias is infallible. To me the question is whether he has acquired more nuggets than he has let get away and I would characterize his track record as very solid. Expecting every move to work out is ridiculously high and we could all add to your list of ones that haven't (Aguilar etc).

As for Bemboom, I will be extremely upset if he is on the 40 man for the Rule 5 and causes us to lose Denoyer. I have confidence this will not be the case. I do agree with the initial description of befuddling, it's a weird.move.

I'm not saying you are saying Elias is infallible, but we have some people on here including normally sane posters that are ready to defend the Bemboom move when it was unnecessary and befuddling at the very least.

My concern is that we have people in very high places, to obviously includes Elias that value Bemboom to the point they added him to the 40-man roster to keep hi from other teams. Some of you are like, oh well, but I seriously have concerns that this is the type of player this organization values.

Shake a minor league tree and ten Bembooms fall out. Hell, sit and watch the waiver wire and two more fell into the Orioles lap after they claimed another one earlier in the season with Gallagher. So that's three Bemboom types off waivers, so why the need to add him to the 40-man when he was sitting on the bench in AAA.

I think we are on the same side when it comes to this being buffudling at best, just I go a step farther and start to have concerns about the team's ability to evaluate if their evaluation people came up with Bemboom and Cave being valuable. 

 

[RZNJ]

38 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

You obviously missed the point like a few others, including anyone who up votes this comment. Look, I'm tired of explaining my point over and over again.

I pointed out where Elias and his evaluators are not infallible. I never said they were terrible. But some of you are such a love affair after last year you now have deified Elias to the point that adding a 33-year old back up catcher to his 40-man roster is met with thumbs ups by some of you. 

I do think Elias and company have done some good things and identified some players off waivers that have become good parts of the bullpen, but other teams find these guy too including teams in the World Series with Elias castaways.

I don't think you can find one person who gives a thumbs up to adding Bemboom to the 40-man roster.   Not being upset by it is not the same as understanding it and/or supporting it.   I don't get it.   At this point, I file it under "no big deal" or "not worth my time".

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don't think you can find one person who gives a thumbs up to adding Bemboom to the 40-man roster.   Not being upset by it is not the same as understanding it and/or supporting it.   I don't get it.   At this point, I file it under "no big deal" or "not worth my time".

This is exactly where I am right now, and I will add that I expect there’s some reason that Elias did it this way rather than just signing Bemboom to a minor league contract.   The fact that I don’t know what that reason would be doesn’t mean I don’t think there is one.   

As to the general merits of Bemboom, I look at it this way:

1.  Bemboom wasn’t considered good enough to beat out Chirinos for the backup when Adley was called up.

2.  Bemboom wasn’t considered good enough to warrant DFAing Chirinos later in the season.

3.  Chirinos did not perform very well, and we need to upgrade the backup C position.

4.  Bemboom is not an upgrade, based on the O’s decisions last year.  

5.  Therefore, we can’t go into next season with Bemboom as our backup C.

So, assuming that Elias agrees with all that, what’s the reason Bemboom is on the 40-man roster right now?   I don’t know, but like I said, I expect there is a reason.

 

[Bahama O's Fan]

I guess the big question is who should be on there instead of Benboom? 

[Pickles]

This all seems like Taylor Teagarden redux.

[Just Regular]

Label it gratitude, flattery, interest, respect or whatever, I guess maybe it is a sign Elias likes him to catch Rom, Povich and whatever other future Orioles Norfolk has next year.     I think for Elias its more, "this is the catcher who worked with our coaches and pitchers in 2022 and knows our jargon, etc".    Tony's right there's hundreds of other catchers with his talent, but he's the only one with his rolling 12-months of human relationships experience.

[Aristotelian]

20 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Label it gratitude, flattery, interest, respect or whatever, I guess maybe it is a sign Elias likes him to catch Rom, Povich and whatever other future Orioles Norfolk has next year.     I think for Elias its more, "this is the catcher who worked with our coaches and pitchers in 2022 and knows our jargon, etc".    Tony's right there's hundreds of other catchers with his talent, but he's the only one with his rolling 12-months of human relationships experience.

And/or to mentor Handley. I am inclined to think there's something like this. Of course, if we had any decent beat media we might actually get answers to some of these befuddling questions.