Where should DL Hall begin the 2023 season?

[Just Regular]

3 hours ago, tntoriole said:

to get Bud Norris, we had to send Josh Hader … Mike Elias was there working with Luhnow .. and David Stearns too who 2 years later in Milwaukee traded for Hader again .. .. 

One more season and we'll see if the circle of baseball life comes around.    Cot's guessing $13mm for his Arb4 2023 number probably not too bad, though the Padres and Salary Relief conversations have been going hand in hand for awhile.

Not that it has to be Hader, but hopefully a year from now the forecast for 1425 innings won't be so tattered, and fancier pieces will be more natural fits for the roster.

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

My hope would be more of a Josh Hader type. Miller didn't strikeout many guys early in his career. In fact, he was not above 10Ks/9 until his age 27 Season, 2012 in Boston.

In Hader's first 41+ innings in 2018 he had a Ks/9 of 12.84.

DL in AAA in 2022: IP: 76.2, K/P 14.67

DL in MLB 2022: IP: 13.2  K/9: 12.51

Hader is a very different type of pitcher. He throws a fastball and nothing else except occasional show me slider. Hall throws a more typical mix with 50% FB and 50% other stuff. On the one hand, he has the ceiling to be a starter which Hader never could be. On the other hand, if he can't figure out how to throw strikes he will not even make it as a reliever, as we've seen.

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Hader is a very different type of pitcher. He throws a fastball and nothing else except occasional show me slider. Hall throws a more typical mix with 50% FB and 50% other stuff. On the one hand, he has the ceiling to be a starter which Hader never could be. On the other hand, if he can't figure out how to throw strikes he will not even make it as a reliever, as we've seen.

You might want to check your scouting report.

 

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You might want to check your scouting report.

 

Gun said 93 and batter was behind it. I don't think that was a changeup. I know he throws them occasionally but he throws FB over 80%, way different than Hall.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Gun said 93 and batter was behind it. I don't think that was a changeup. I know he throws them occasionally but he throws FB over 80%, way different than Hall.

OK, I'm sure you are the expert.

Despite the fact that you admit he throws them, that obviously wasn't one.

Got it!

How about these?

He's added a change.

[Aristotelian]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

OK, I'm sure you are the expert.

Despite the fact that you admit he throws them, that obviously wasn't one.

Got it!

How about these?

He's added a change.

Fair enough, yes, he throws occasional changeups. Larger point is they are not the same. Hader is a freak and we cannot expect that turning Hall into a reliever will enable him to have the same level of success. Maybe it works, maybe not. 

[O's84]

7 hours ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

My hope would be more of a Josh Hader type. Miller didn't strikeout many guys early in his career. In fact, he was not above 10Ks/9 until his age 27 Season, 2012 in Boston.

In Hader's first 41+ innings in 2018 he had a Ks/9 of 12.84.

DL in AAA in 2022: IP: 76.2, K/P 14.67

DL in MLB 2022: IP: 13.2  K/9: 12.51

Just a little correction.  The 1st year they stopped having him start games and have him exclusively in the bullpen he put up 11.4 K/9 (upped from an avg. of 7.2 K/9 he had as a starter his first 6 years).  The next year he bettered that with 14.1 K/9.

Edited October 25, 2022 by O's84

[Jim'sKid26]

I think the concept here is that Hall has wipeout stuff from the Left side. Miller and Hader are two different forms of a dominant LHRP. Hader has a higher Ks/9, (whatever his pitch mix might be) and my point was that Hall's K/9 numbers are a bit closer to Hader's than Miller's at a similar development level. OBVIOUSLY they are all different pitchers. But Hall really does intrigue me as a back of the BP (can I dream Closer type?) power arm with a high k/9. For what it's worth.

[Frobby]

Eric Longenhagen’s opinion:

Romorr: How would you handle DL Hall to start 2023? Give him a rotational spot, reliever, or to AAA to start every 5th day, then, when the results get there, promote him?

Eric A Longenhagen: Nasty MIRP

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/eric-longenhagen-chat-11-18-22/

 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Eric Longenhagen’s opinion:

Romorr: How would you handle DL Hall to start 2023? Give him a rotational spot, reliever, or to AAA to start every 5th day, then, when the results get there, promote him?

Eric A Longenhagen: Nasty MIRP

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/eric-longenhagen-chat-11-18-22/

 

Is that acronym Middle Inning Relief Pitcher?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Is that acronym Middle Inning Relief Pitcher?

I assume so.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I assume so.

That works for me.  The concept as well.   I'd prefer to see Hall in the majors instead of trying to consistently dominate AAA hitters as a starter.   His innings are going to be limited anyway.   Use him for multiple innings either randomly when needed or as a combination with someone like GrayRod.   I've already mentioned Voth being used like that as well.

[waroriole]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Eric Longenhagen’s opinion:

Romorr: How would you handle DL Hall to start 2023? Give him a rotational spot, reliever, or to AAA to start every 5th day, then, when the results get there, promote him?

Eric A Longenhagen: Nasty MIRP

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/eric-longenhagen-chat-11-18-22/

 

I like this. I’d pair him with Grayson, since we need to manage his innings. Would be must see viewing. 

[AnythingO's]

So with a 13 man staff, what's the argument against having a GR-Hall tandem? Backend is Bautista, Perez, Tate, Baker, middle is Akin, Wells, long is Watkins. That leaves room for 6 starters. Two electric arms, both on restricted innings in 2023 but who you want on starter schedule rotation at least until someone fails to produce. GR for 3-4 inn, DL for 2-3 inn and rotate who opens vs who relieves to manage the totals. If all goes well you get 175-200+ inn from 1 rotation spot, gotta help the BP load. The lefty-righty mix could also upset who starts for the opposition, potentially limiting the ABs for their more dangerous hitters. So why not try it?

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

So with a 13 man staff, what's the argument against having a GR-Hall tandem? Backend is Bautista, Perez, Tate, Baker, middle is Akin, Wells, long is Watkins. That leaves room for 6 starters. Two electric arms, both on restricted innings in 2023 but who you want on starter schedule rotation at least until someone fails to produce. GR for 3-4 inn, DL for 2-3 inn and rotate who opens vs who relieves to manage the totals. If all goes well you get 175-200+ inn from 1 rotation spot, gotta help the BP load. The lefty-righty mix could also upset who starts for the opposition, potentially limiting the ABs for their more dangerous hitters. So why not try it?

The argument is:

1)  The O's have not given up on Hall being a starter.

2) He has not pitched a lot of innings in his career and needs the opportunity to pitch a lot of innings in 2023.  Probably around 130 innings somewhere.

3) With the O's trying to be playoff contenders in 2023, the O's need for Hall to find his control before he is promoted to the majors there by  giving other pitchers with better control a change to win games at the major league level.

So my guess is he begins the season at AAA and is promote when he shows his control is good enough for the majors.   Just look how long Elias kept Grayson in the minors.