“Orioles big game shopping & most believe it's exclusively rotation”

[Frobby]

I was looking for a watch for my wife once, and looked around a Cartier store for about five minutes before I realized everything there cost five times as much as I intended to pay.   Was that “big game shopping” Orioles-style?

[Can_of_corn]

27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I was looking for a watch for my wife once, and looked around a Cartier store for about five minutes before I realized everything there cost five times as much as I intended to pay.   Was that “big game shopping” Orioles-style?

Only if you talked to a sales person before leaving.

[oriolefan1035]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I was looking for a watch for my wife once, and looked around a Cartier store for about five minutes before I realized everything there cost five times as much as I intended to pay.   Was that “big game shopping” Orioles-style?

If you hyped up your wife’s friends and family about the luxury gift you were planning to get her.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I was looking for a watch for my wife once, and looked around a Cartier store for about five minutes before I realized everything there cost five times as much as I intended to pay.   Was that “big game shopping” Orioles-style?

If you had an idea you couldn’t afford it before you went. Elias presumably had his budget and the uptick in revenues. If he was not anticipating the prices being higher than usual by say 10-15% that’s one thing. If it was more than that either he’s too stupid or clueless to be running an MLB team.

[SemperFi]

Going back to the days of Hemond and Thift it was somewhat common knowledge that the Orioles leaked their involvement with players and agents-this produced a lot of bad will and distrust among reporters/agents/players/the union and fans.  It was high schoolish and short sided.  I don't believe that happens any more (less reporters without front office direction).  I also don't believe they "kicked" the tires and were shocked at the asking price.  My opinion is that Elias had a very good idea where the market was going, did his due diligence and decided it was not a good long term investment.  Where that capital is to be allocated I have no idea, maybe trades but I am hoping extensions.  Do I expect to see them spend in a competitive window-yes but I hope we don't see any more Davis contracts affect future years-that's no way to run a budget or business.  On another note it is disingenuous not to include deferred money in this years payroll-that is the way the Orioles budget.  

[Going Underground]

37 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

Going back to the days of Hemond and Thift it was somewhat common knowledge that the Orioles leaked their involvement with players and agents-this produced a lot of bad will and distrust among reporters/agents/players/the union and fans.  It was high schoolish and short sided.  I don't believe that happens any more (less reporters without front office direction).  I also don't believe they "kicked" the tires and were shocked at the asking price.  My opinion is that Elias had a very good idea where the market was going, did his due diligence and decided it was not a good long term investment.  Where that capital is to be allocated I have no idea, maybe trades but I am hoping extensions.  Do I expect to see them spend in a competitive window-yes but I hope we don't see any more Davis contracts affect future years-that's no way to run a budget or business.  On another note it is disingenuous not to include deferred money in this years payroll-that is the way the Orioles budget.  

The $60 mm. is with the deferred money. This site has them over $61mm.,which is still the second lowest payroll at this time. Hopefully they go a little higher.

Baltimore Orioles 2023 Salaries & Payroll Table | Spotrac
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/baltimore-orioles/payroll/

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Only if you talked to a sales person before leaving.

Sure I did!  I believe our dialogue went something like this:

”Hi, can I help you?”

”Uh….just looking, thanks.”

Sound about right?
 

[SemperFi]

30 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

The $60 mm. is with the deferred money. This site has them over $61mm.,which is still the second lowest payroll at this time. Hopefully they go a little higher.

Baltimore Orioles 2023 Salaries & Payroll Table | Spotrac
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/baltimore-orioles/payroll/

Sorry, way too broad a stroke by me-not just here but I see the lower # often quoted and know that is not the way it is budgeted.  I agree it should not affect spending.  Thanks for calling me out.

[HakunaSakata]

1 hour ago, SemperFi said:

Going back to the days of Hemond and Thift it was somewhat common knowledge that the Orioles leaked their involvement with players and agents-this produced a lot of bad will and distrust among reporters/agents/players/the union and fans.  It was high schoolish and short sided.  I don't believe that happens any more (less reporters without front office direction).  I also don't believe they "kicked" the tires and were shocked at the asking price.  My opinion is that Elias had a very good idea where the market was going, did his due diligence and decided it was not a good long term investment.  Where that capital is to be allocated I have no idea, maybe trades but I am hoping extensions.  Do I expect to see them spend in a competitive window-yes but I hope we don't see any more Davis contracts affect future years-that's no way to run a budget or business.  On another note it is disingenuous not to include deferred money in this years payroll-that is the way the Orioles budget.  

That might e your opinion, but the odds are you're wrong. Elias would have never been so local about making a splash in the FA market if he had no intention of signing better players. The much more realistic scenario is that he couldn't pry John Angelos' wallet open. 

[Roll Tide]

12 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

That might e your opinion, but the odds are you're wrong. Elias would have never been so local about making a splash in the FA market if he had no intention of signing better players. The much more realistic scenario is that he couldn't pry John Angelos' wallet open. 

My guess is that he thought he had total control of baseball operations only to find out he didn’t. 

[SemperFi]

2 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

That might e your opinion, but the odds are you're wrong. Elias would have never been so local about making a splash in the FA market if he had no intention of signing better players. The much more realistic scenario is that he couldn't pry John Angelos' wallet open. 

Could be true, just my opinion.  I have no direct knowledge other than my own experience in budgets but generally you work with ownership to set a budget, then you are expected to live within it unless there are extenuating circumstances-like a chance to contend.  In my case I was often told fine but make cuts in other areas to make budget.  My larger point being I hope Elias has the autonomy not to have to go to Angelos on every FA signing certainly a Rondon but not a 1-2-3 year contract that is hopefully already baked in the budget.  We are in dire straits if that is the case.  If you are right it speaks to my initial post, what happened to change strategy.  I believe Elias is one of the "best and brightest" , the others certainly saw where the market was going and adjusted.

[HakunaSakata]

Just now, SemperFi said:

Could be true, just my opinion.  I have no direct knowledge other than my own experience in budgets but generally you work with ownership to set a budget, then you are expected to live within it unless there are extenuating circumstances-like a chance to contend.  In my case I was often told fine but make cuts in other areas to make budget.  My larger point being I hope Elias has the autonomy not to have to go to Angelos on every FA signing certainly a Rondon but not a 1-2-3 year contract that is hopefully already baked in the budget.  We are in dire straits if that is the case.  If you are right it speaks to my initial post, what happened to change strategy.  I believe Elias is one of the "best and brightest" , the others certainly saw where the market was going and adjusted.

I think we're about to find out if Elias is truly one of the best and brightest, because he's going to have to pivot from his strategy and find a way to improve the starting pitching without compromising the team's future. If he doesn't make any other significant moves this offseason I'm going to start to question his ability to adapt to the situation at hand. Whether that be an overpriced free agent market or penny pinching owner. 

[HakunaSakata]

8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

My guess is that he thought he had total control of baseball operations only to find out he didn’t. 

Probably. The way I think it probably played out is Elias took an offer for one of the SPs to Elias for approval and that's when he dropped the bombshell about what he was/wasn't willing to spend. 

[oriolefan1035]

4 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

I think we're about to find out if Elias is truly one of the best and brightest, because he's going to have to pivot from his strategy and find a way to improve the starting pitching without compromising the team's future. If he doesn't make any other significant moves this offseason I'm going to start to question his ability to adapt to the situation at hand. Whether that be an overpriced free agent market or penny pinching owner. 

I don’t think the pivot we make should be to add anyone. The strategy was to improve the rotation. That ship has sailed IMO. At this point, I just assume roll with what we have and see what we have with the prospects. Rather than trading several prospects for a few years of a #3 SP, let’s buy down some future costs for players we expect to be here long-term. Get Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson on 10yr deals to increase flexibility in the future.

[HakunaSakata]

6 minutes ago, oriolefan1035 said:

I don’t think the pivot we make should be to add anyone. The strategy was to improve the rotation. That ship has sailed IMO. At this point, I just assume roll with what we have and see what we have with the prospects. Rather than trading several prospects for a few years of a #3 SP, let’s buy down some future costs for players we expect to be here long-term. Get Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson on 10yr deals to increase flexibility in the future.

...but we don't enough high level pitching prospects to make that strategy work. And trading a prospect for a #3 SP is not what I suggested. I suggested trading a prospect for a young "potential" #1. If Elias/Angelos aren't going to address our offensive prospects to pitching prospects imbalance via free agency then they need to pivot and find another way. Doing nothing should be an option, because we don't have much high level pitching depth in our minor leagues.