Orioles sign Mychal Givens

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Oh, now people were hysterical. lol 

Well it seemed that the "hysterical" people were the ones with the massive amount of stats and statcast information to back up their claims that this move was terrible.

Unlike the people who defended it, told us Elias was smarter, Elias has more information so we don't know what we were talking about, tried to use stats from 3 years ago, and generally loved the move until we showed them his declining speed, EVs and Barrell and hard hit %, then suddenly changed their tune to calling it a "bleh" move.

Go vote and make your self known one way or the other. No more fence dwellers. Time to say you like or don't like the move as of 15 December.

Right.  Stats from 3 years ago because the first half of 2021 doesn’t count.   I said I didn’t like the move about 10 pages ago.  
 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by RZNJ

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Right.  Stats from 3 years ago because the first half of 2021 doesn’t count.   

It’s pretty absurd.  Frazier has had one bad season, in 2022.   The best season of his career was 2021.  He was very solid every year from 2018-20.   So obviously, last year’s performance means he’s definitely done, because he had a low EV, hard hit and barrel rate, just like every other year he’s played.  

[interloper]

There are now 3 threads dedicated to Frazier. It's time to move on for a bit maybe!

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

There are now 3 threads dedicated to Frazier. It's time to move on for a bit maybe!

Or perhaps, go back to talking about Givens in the Givens thread?

[Frobby]

My favorite Givens moment:

https://www.mlb.com/news/mychal-givens-prevents-winning-run-after-pitch-c271157344

[interloper]

Lewin Diaz has been DFA'd to make room for Givens. No real surprise there. Would be a good depth guy to have in AAA if he passes through, but no harm if he doesn't. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It’s pretty absurd.  Frazier has had one bad season, in 2022.   The best season of his career was 2021.  He was very solid every year from 2018-20.   So obviously, last year’s performance means he’s definitely done, because he had a low EV, hard hit and barrel rate, just like every other year he’s played.  

What's absurd is you taken it by years and not that it's been over his last 800 PAs he's been bad. You are better than that, or at least I thought you were. You also are discouting the drop in foot speed which is pretty important for slap hitters like Frazier.

But hey, if getting upvotes from RZNJ is worth saying some BS, you be you my friend, but you are thumbing your nose at the facts.

[Tony-OH]

16 minutes ago, interloper said:

Lewin Diaz has been DFA'd to make room for Givens. No real surprise there. Would be a good depth guy to have in AAA if he passes through, but no harm if he doesn't. 

Diaz was a weird 40-man decision as it stands. I imagine he will make it through waivers and I guess he will be AAA depth, which is ok I guess.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

What's absurd is you taken it by years and not that it's been over his last 800 PAs he's been bad. You are better than that, or at least I thought you were. You also are discouting the drop in foot speed which is pretty important for slap hitters like Frazier.

But hey, if getting upvotes from RZNJ is worth saying some BS, you be you my friend, but you are thumbing your nose at the facts.

I love the “I thought you were better than that” and complaining that I upvoted his post.  Your sandbox is getting dirty.   

[RZNJ]

I think Diaz gets claimed but I hope he makes it through.  I think he and Daz Cameron are interesting claims.

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I think Diaz gets claimed but I hope he makes it through.  I think he and Daz Cameron are interesting claims.

Same, nothing wrong with a 1B who can really play defense if you're in a pinch. Especially when our 1B depth is so incredibly thin. I like most of our claims/minor league signings this off-season. Franchy is an underrated AAA depth/possible MLB bench move IMO. 

[Frobby]

49 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

What's absurd is you taken it by years and not that it's been over his last 800 PAs he's been bad. You are better than that, or at least I thought you were. You also are discouting the drop in foot speed which is pretty important for slap hitters like Frazier.

But hey, if getting upvotes from RZNJ is worth saying some BS, you be you my friend, but you are thumbing your nose at the facts.

Spare the insults.  I don’t care who upvotes or downvotes my opinions.  Downvote this one if you like.

What I did not like about your post I was responding to was the suggestion that Frazier hasn’t been good in three years.   That’s simply not true.  I also don’t think it’s right to put too much emphasis on his last 211 PA of 2021, when the was very good for double that number of PA that year.  I think his performance over all of 2021 combined is more relevant than either the first four months or the last two (not a “half season” as some stated).
 

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Spare the insults.  I don’t care who upvotes or downvotes my opinions.  Downvote this one if you like.

What I did not like about your post I was responding to was the suggestion that Frazier hasn’t been good in three years.   That’s simply not true.  I also don’t think it’s right to put too much emphasis on his last 211 PA of 2021, when the was very good for double that number of PA that year.  I think his performance over all of 2021 combined is more relevant than either the first four months or the last two (not a “half season” as some stated).
 

I said he hasn't been good in three years except for one half of a season in 2021. How is that wrong?

2022: Not Good (30 years old)
2021: 1st half was good, 2nd half Not Good (29 years old)
2020: Not Good (.230/.297/.364/.661) (28 years old)
2019: Good (.278/.336/.417/.753) (27 years old)

2022 (1 year ago) 2021 (2 years ago), 2020 (3 years ago). 

Where is my statement factually incorrect? 

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I said he hasn't been good in three years except for one half of a season in 2021. How is that wrong?

2022: Not Good (30 years old)
2021: 1st half was good, 2nd half Not Good (29 years old)
2020: Not Good (.230/.297/.364/.661) (28 years old)
2019: Good (.278/.336/.417/.753) (27 years old)

2022 (1 year ago) 2021 (2 years ago), 2020 (3 years ago). 

Where is my statement factually incorrect? 

Two things, in my opinion.  

1.  It wasn’t a good “half season” in 2021.  It was at least 2/3 of the season where he was good to excellent.  And by the way, he had an .803 OPS in Sept./Oct. that year, so it’s not like he was in some extended free fall that carried into 2022.  That’s why I prefer to look at all of 2021 combined rather than cherry-picking parts of it.

2.  He did not hit well in 2020, but he played pretty well.  Both Bb-ref and Fangraphs had him at 0.8 WAR over a 60-game season, which equates to 2.2 WAR over a full year.  

PS - I really wish we’d stop discussing Frazier in the Givens thread.  There are two threads on Frazier where this can be discussed.  I’m partially at fault and don’t intend to discuss Frazier any further in this thread.  


 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Frobby

[Tony-OH]

49 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Two things, in my opinion.  

1.  It wasn’t a good “half season” in 2021.  It was at least 2/3 of the season where he was good to excellent.  And by the way, he had an .803 OPS in Sept./Oct. that year, so it’s not like he was in some extended free fall that carried into 2022.  That’s why I prefer to look at all of 2021 combined rather than cherry-picking parts of it.

2.  He did not hit well in 2020, but he played pretty well.  Both Bb-ref and Fangraphs had him at 0.8 WAR over a 60-game season, which equates to 2.2 WAR over a full year.  

PS - I really wish we’d stop discussing Frazier in the Givens thread.  There are two threads on Frazier where this can be discussed.  I’m partially at fault and don’t intend to discuss Frazier any further in this thread.  


 

I'm fine with not discussing Frazier ever again! lol