Poll: Do you like the Adam Frazier signing?

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Thats a lot of words to say nothing at all

That’s very dismissive and disrespectful but what else is new.

[RVAOsFan]

I don't think I have really commented on this signing, in fact I haven't even selected yes or no in the poll yet.  I think the reason for that is because I still don't understand the signing.  If everyone here (for the most part) doesn't understand it then what are we missing?

Here is my guess, and you can call me an Elias homer or whatever but I don't think Frazier was signed to take at bats away from second basemen as much as he was signed to take at bats away from Hays.  I think this signing makes more sense when Hays gets included in a trade later this off season and Frazier gets the majority of his starts in one of the corners.  As for Stowers and Vavra, I watched enough games last year they were on the roster for to determine that Hyde, Elias whoever is filling out the lineup card is not super excited about those guys.

I look forward to the opening day poll where we can vote if we are happy or not happy with the off season moves.  

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Just now, RVAOsFan said:

I don't think I have really commented on this signing, in fact I haven't even selected yes or no in the poll yet.  I think the reason for that is because I still don't understand the signing.  If everyone here (for the most part) doesn't understand it then what are we missing?

Here is my guess, and you can call me an Elias homer or whatever but I don't think Frazier was signed to take at bats away from second basemen as much as he was signed to take at bats away from Hays.  I think this signing makes more sense when Hays gets included in a trade later this off season and Frazier gets the majority of his starts in one of the corners.  As for Stowers and Vavra, I watched enough games last year they were on the roster for to determine that Hyde, Elias whoever is filling out the lineup card is not super excited about those guys.

I look forward to the opening day poll where we can vote if we are happy or not happy with the off season moves.  

Okay, but then who plays LF at home?

Certainly not Frazier, he is not even remotely viable in LF at OPACY.

[Tony-OH]

One thing we haven't gotten into as much is what does this mean for Westburg. For me, this makes Westburg a prime prospect to be traded before next season. 

The Orioles do prioritize defense in the infield and Westburg is not a plus defender anywhere he plays, so maybe the organization will use him for trade bait. Why else do you sign a guy to play the position he has the most likely chance of playing effectively?

If Westburg is traded, then the signing of Frazier makes a little more sense, but still not at that price point. The team also may be under valuing Ortiz or maybe they don't think the bat is real, because I can almost promise you that Ortiz would play GG level second base and probably be worth 2 WAR on defense alone.

I can't see the Orioles trading both Westburg and Ortiz unless the return is a top starting pitcher who is controllable. Just be on record, I would use Westburg as a trade chip because I think he brings a decent return and he may not be the plus defender the Orioles want at 2B, SS or 3B. He may have more value to a team looking for a bat first option.

[luismatos4prez]

I'll go on the record as saying yes if it comes with a trade from our MIF depth. Put a package like Mateo, Bradish, and Westburg on the market and see what you can get back.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Frazier has not been good in a year and a half, he blocks prospects, and he prevents the team from actually getting better.

Complete waste of $8 million dollars and a roster spot.

I will be concise. Will Frazier cost the Orioles a playoff spot? 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Frazier has not been good in a year and a half, he blocks prospects, and he prevents the team from actually getting better.

Complete waste of $8 million dollars and a roster spot.

1. Correct. Can’t argue the last 1 1/2 years

2. He certainly impedes the playing time of prospects. I don’t think he completely blocks anyone unless he is great and even then it’s one year.

3. Illogigal.  IF he plays well.

4. We’ll see. Maybe. See #3.

[RVAOsFan]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Okay, but then who plays LF at home?

Certainly not Frazier, he is not even remotely viable in LF at OPACY.

Not my first choice but Mckenna? 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, RVAOsFan said:

Not my first choice but Mckenna? 

My guess is Cowser once he is up. Hays otherwise. 

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I don't think I have really commented on this signing, in fact I haven't even selected yes or no in the poll yet.  I think the reason for that is because I still don't understand the signing.  If everyone here (for the most part) doesn't understand it then what are we missing?

Here is my guess, and you can call me an Elias homer or whatever but I don't think Frazier was signed to take at bats away from second basemen as much as he was signed to take at bats away from Hays.  I think this signing makes more sense when Hays gets included in a trade later this off season and Frazier gets the majority of his starts in one of the corners.  As for Stowers and Vavra, I watched enough games last year they were on the roster for to determine that Hyde, Elias whoever is filling out the lineup card is not super excited about those guys.

I look forward to the opening day poll where we can vote if we are happy or not happy with the off season moves.  

Part of the allure of Frazier is his defense at 2B.  I don’t agree with your theory.  That would make even less sense to me.

[Tony-OH]

26 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

What I see is this. Many of the reasons used slamming the move are an attempt to show faults with Elias and are emotionally driven. I find the examples to be laughable and weak. 

All we're going to do is rehash the Frazier thread. We get it, you believe using stats, age, metrics are laughably weak ways to evaluate moves and prefer the "trust Elias" approach and any fault finding in Elias is emotionally driven. 

Your point has been clear. Why are you wasting time writing a bunch of stuff that Elias has done again when we all know this and probably 99% of us agree that he's done well in many areas of rebuilding this franchise top to bottom?

Some of us are just able to understand that everyone has strengths and weaknesses including Elias, and that we have seen poor decisions made by him with major league talent evaluations and playing time. 

If you consider that an emotional response, that's on you. Those are just plain facts.

[Tony-OH]

13 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

It is necessary. Tony needs board activity and no other SP has been added. Plus it’s Christmas time. The board will slow down anyway. Just embrace it.  

Doesn't hurt!

Honestly though, I really just wanted a simple poll to put people on record. 

[Jagwar]

The reason I voted Yes is because I think the O's can compete for a WC spot in 2023, and I don't know (yet) that Ortiz, Westburg or any other MiLer is ready to hit ML pitching. Perhaps one could make the team as a utility player out of Spring Training? Let them get their bearings, provide ABs by using the DH spot or spelling any of the 2B/SS/3B spots in the lineup. If Frazier can rebound to a .750ish OPS, then it works for me.  

And... as noted, perhaps there is a trade of a middle infielder for pitching that makes this a better move. Sign Frazier, include Mateo in a package for a solid starter? I'm all for it. 

[Jammer7]

I cannot vote in this poll. It’s too simplistic. Should be a “meh” option. It can be decent, it can be a waste. At best, I think he is an average 2B. Solid and reliable, if all goes well. But that is what $8 million buys on the FA market. Who else would have rather they signed for that figure? I have seen no one offer any other names for the same money and year. 

Are Westburg and Ortiz better long-term? Most-likely, when they are ready. It makes sense that there is a trade coming. Whether now or before the deadline. 

Honestly, the polarity of this signing is unhinged upon the disappointment that “this is it, so far.” If they had signed Rodon and Nimmo, this signing would have gotten two pages. To read comments that this is bad, no matter how it turns out is befuddling. Frazier is an Oriole. I’ll be cheering for him to be that solid veteran piece, a contact hitter who gets on base. I do wish speed was more of his game, but it never was a big tool. 

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

You asked a question. I answered it. Yes I went long but I was trying to summarize my thoughts. 
 

Go ahead and challenge what I said. Go do it. 

There is nothing to challenge.  Your post is all over the place and honestly, tl;Dr at certain points.

Once you start bringing up that he got good production from scrap heap guys, you lose me. First of all, who cares. Second of all, those guys weren’t blocking significant prospects, they weren’t brought in during a year where the team expected contention and they were no gamble because they cost nothing.  It’s apples to oranges.