Suggested Deal w/Marlins

[HakunaSakata]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Marlins won 69 games last year.  They need talent, period.  

69 wins...

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Trey had a .614 OPS in the second half last year (worse than Hays and Mountcastle) and a .173 Postseason OPS. Mountcastle is a much better option than him heading into next year. The guy was one of, if not the, most unlucky hitter last year. 

OMG just STOP with this SSS argument! You don’t judge Mancini on two months with the Astros.

I’m not arguing we should sign Mancini, but if we don’t, this shouldn’t be the reason.  5.6 years > 0.4 when it comes to predictive value.  

[sportsfan8703]

28 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Trey had a .614 OPS in the second half last year (worse than Hays and Mountcastle) and a .173 Postseason OPS. Mountcastle is a much better option than him heading into next year. The guy was one of, if not the, most unlucky hitter last year. 

It’s the concept of a stop gap. Mancini has had much better 1st half #s since cancer. He tends to tire out. We’re not banking our whole season on him. 
 

For 2023, gimme Mancini + Lopez over Mountcastle and Hays. Cowser will be ready in the 2nd half. Hays could be a non tender candidate next offseason. Hays is the odd man out in our OF, but the Marlins could squeeze out some CF out of him in 2023. If somehow that trade gets done I’d go with this,

vs RHP

Mullins L CF

Adley S C

Gunnar L SS

Santander S RF

Mancini R 1B

Stowers L LF

Westburg R DH

Frazier L 2B

Urias R 3B

Cowser in the mix sometime in June. We could pick up Adam Duvall to platoon with Stowers. 

[Moose Milligan]

It's a good day when Frobby types OMG just STOP like he's a teenager texting.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[yark14]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's a good day when Frobby types OMG just STOP like he's a teenager texting.

LOL, OG comment.

[LTO's]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 5.6 years > 0.4 when it comes to predictive value.  

Hold on a second lol. I wasn't the one who brought up the second half sample. I was responding to someone who did to explain that it doesn't even show what he thinks it shows. In terms of predictive value, I haven't seen a single projection have Mancini as more valuable than Mountcastle next year. The reason we shouldn't be signing Mancini is that he'll be more expensive than RM, a worse hitter and fielder and he's 5 years older. That good enough for you?

[LTO's]

11 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

For 2023, gimme Mancini + Lopez over Mountcastle and Hays. Cowser will be ready in the 2nd half. Hays could be a non tender candidate next offseason. Hays is the odd man out in our OF, but the Marlins could squeeze out some CF out of him in 2023. If somehow that trade gets done I’d go with this,

If Mountcastle and Hays are so detrimental to a team's offensive output, why on Earth would a team with the worst offense in the NL want them? 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, LTO's said:

Hold on a second lol. I wasn't the one who brought up the second half sample. I was responding to someone who did to explain that it doesn't even show what he thinks it shows. In terms of predictive value, I haven't seen a single projection have Mancini as more valuable than Mountcastle next year. The reason we shouldn't be signing Mancini is that he'll be more expensive than RM, a worse hitter and fielder and he's 5 years older. That good enough for you?

These points are fair, however if it comes to packaging Mountcastle for someone like Pablo Lopez, you should probably do it.  And if Mancini is a one year placeholder, I bet he can come close to what Mountcastle did last year.

If the argument is who's the better player after 2023, sure, it's Mountcastle all day.  But Mountcastle put up a .729 OPS and a 105 OPS+ last year, Mancini was at .710 and 101+ while in Baltimore. The differences weren't that huge.

I'm not blinking if the Marlins want Mountcastle/Hays + Urias/Mateo.  If we can get Pablo Lopez back, I'm good with it.  And if they toss in a minor league lottery ticket from Low A or lower, I'm great with it.

Getting Lopez wouldn't completely erase the disaster this offseason has been but it sure would make me feel better about it.  I like Mountcastle as a guy, I think he's a good dude but his slumps are excruciating.  Hays and his lack of plate discipline are terrible, too.  I'd miss Mountcastle a little bit, wouldn't miss Hays at all.  And we should have plenty of talent to take over for either Urias or Mateo. 

 

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, LTO's said:

If Mountcastle and Hays are so detrimental to a team's offensive output, why on Earth would a team with the worst offense in the NL want them? 

They probably don't, but this is the OH and we're always thinking that other teams won't notice the flaws we berate our players about.  

Essentially, we think we're smarter than everyone else.

[LTO's]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

These points are fair, however if it comes to packaging Mountcastle for someone like Pablo Lopez, you should probably do it.  And if Mancini is a one year placeholder, I bet he can come close to what Mountcastle did last year.

If the argument is who's the better player after 2023, sure, it's Mountcastle all day.  But Mountcastle put up a .729 OPS and a 105 OPS+ last year, Mancini was at .710 and 101+ while in Baltimore. The differences weren't that huge.

I'm not blinking if the Marlins want Mountcastle/Hays + Urias/Mateo.  If we can get Pablo Lopez back, I'm good with it.  And if they toss in a minor league lottery ticket from Low A or lower, I'm great with it.

Getting Lopez wouldn't completely erase the disaster this offseason has been but it sure would make me feel better about it.  I like Mountcastle as a guy, I think he's a good dude but his slumps are excruciating.  Hays and his lack of plate discipline are terrible, too.  I'd miss Mountcastle a little bit, wouldn't miss Hays at all.  And we should have plenty of talent to take over for either Urias or Mateo. 

 

I wouldn't complain if the O's pulled the trigger on either of those two moves you suggested. Besides a stellar arm, Hays doesn't do anything for me at this point.  I just don't really think the pitching is so bad as to need to subtract from the offense to improve it. The O's were 20th in runs scored last year so it's not like they are the opposite of the Marlins where we have all these sluggers we can afford to move to improve the pitching. They have the prospects for that, sure. It just seems like the Marlins aren't interested in that. 

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, LTO's said:

I wouldn't complain if the O's pulled the trigger on either of those two moves you suggested. Besides a stellar arm, Hays doesn't do anything for me at this point.  I just don't really think the pitching is so bad as to need to subtract from the offense to improve it. The O's were 20th in runs scored last year so it's not like they are the opposite of the Marlins where we have all these sluggers we can afford to move to improve the pitching. They have the prospects for that, sure. It just seems like the Marlins aren't interested in that. 

I think our pitching has a lot of question marks, guys we need to see if they can carry over their success from the end of last year like Bradish and Kremer.  Some seem to think it's bad, I just see question marks.  IMO, Lopez solves a bit of that problem.

MLBTR says that the Marlins wanted Arraez, there's no one we really have that can match up with that.  I don't see a deal happening between us and the Marlins, despite everyone's best efforts here.  

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

You should really read the entire post before replying 

I wouldn't consider Mancini a significant outside addition but I guess some people might.

[NCRaven]

I wouldn’t give up 4 years of Mountcastle alone, much less with another player for 2 years of Lopez.  Crazy talk.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I wouldn’t give up 4 years of Mountcastle alone, much less with another player for 2 years of Lopez.  Crazy talk.

Crazy talk?   Big time disagree.    

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I wouldn’t give up 4 years of Mountcastle alone, much less with another player for 2 years of Lopez.  Crazy talk.

I think we're overrating Mountcastle here.  Great guy, no question about it...extremely likable.  But his skill set isn't irreplaceable.  

Granted, Lopez's skillset isn't elite and irreplaceable either.  But I think it's a lot harder to find a guy like Lopez than it is to find a guy like Mountcastle.  I'd rather have him for the 2 years and hope to extend him rather than Mountcastle for 4.