Orioles Acquire LHP Cole Irvin from the A's for Darrel Hernaiz

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I feel like that is playing service time games. He’s not being kept off the ML team on OD because he’s not ready, but only to take advantage of getting an extra year of team control. If he’s starting the year in Norfolk, you’re just wasting the number of innings he has to pitch. 

I hear you, and I'm not saying you are wrong, but in the case the Orioles are contending in September, would you rather have him able to give you 5-6 innings then? I guess in theory he could make the team and pitch out of the pen with Wells starting at first but they may want to keep him him on a starter's routine pitching 3 innings for the first month or so and that would not be easy to do in the majors vs AAA. 

I want to see Grayson starting the year in the rotation as much as anyone, but he probably only has 120, maybe 130 innings this year if we go by how teams typically bring guys back after short years.

[wildcard]

19 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I agree with you.  Another thing to consider is how Irvin might fare in the bullpen.   We know that Wells, in particular, has looked good in a bullpen role.  What would Irvin's role even be in the bullpen?     It just doesn't add up that he's not a lock for the rotation.

I see your point.    But the question which probably gets answered with him in the rotation is can he be effective enough to hold down a rotation spot.    He has a 90mph fastball without much spin.   He has been effective is a large park but gets killed pitching away from home.

The hope is that Holt can change him enough to make him effective.   It really doesn't matter how durable he is if he can't keep runs off the board.

I'll root for him.  But he has a lot to prove IMO.

[waroriole]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I hear you, and I'm not saying you are wrong, but in the case the Orioles are contending in September, would you rather have him able to give you 5-6 innings then? I guess in theory he could make the team and pitch out of the pen with Wells starting at first but they may want to keep him him on a starter's routine pitching 3 innings for the first month or so and that would not be easy to do in the majors vs AAA. 

I want to see Grayson starting the year in the rotation as much as anyone, but he probably only has 120, maybe 130 innings this year if we go by how teams typically bring guys back after short years.

I’d like to see them have Grayson and Hall kind of tag team games to limit both of their innings. If they can give you 7 innings between them every 5 games, it limits their innings so they can still pitch at the end of the season and maximizes the number of innings your best pitchers throw in Baltimore. We have enough swing starter type pitchers that we should be able to cover all the innings. 

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I see your point.    But the question which probably gets answered with him in the rotation is can he be effective enough to hold down a rotation spot.    He has a 90mph fastball without much spin.   He has been effective is a large park but gets killed pitching away from home.

The hope is that Holt can change him enough to make him effective.   It really doesn't matter how durable he is if he can't keep runs off the board.

I'll root for him.  But he has a lot to prove IMO.

I think someone pointed out to you that his expected homers would have been less in OPACY than Oakland last year.   When you say he gets killed on the road, it's pretty much the home runs.   So if he does exactly what he did at home and on the road last year, that would certainly be acceptable.

Also, keep in mind that in 2021 his home/road splits were a lot less pronounced.   3.97 at home.  4.57 at home.  10 homers at home.  13 on the road.

Edited January 28, 2023 by RZNJ

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I think someone pointed out to you that his expected homers would have been less in OPACY than Oakland last year.   When you say he gets killed on the road, it's pretty much the home runs.   So if he does exactly what he did at home and on the road last year, that would certainly be acceptable.

Also, keep in mind that in 2021 his home/road splits were a lot less pronounced.   3.97 at home.  4.57 at home.  10 homers at home.  13 on the road.

He's immune to all evidence.

[DirtyBird]

27 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I'll root for him.  But he has a lot to prove IMO.

Good to know that we have 6 other starters on the roster that don't have anything to prove

[ThisIsBirdland]

37 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I’d like to see them have Grayson and Hall kind of tag team games to limit both of their innings. If they can give you 7 innings between them every 5 games, it limits their innings so they can still pitch at the end of the season and maximizes the number of innings your best pitchers throw in Baltimore. We have enough swing starter type pitchers that we should be able to cover all the innings. 

I also had this thought and wondered if it was realistic or not. I personally love the idea and I'm interested what others think of it.

[RZNJ]

I suggested they do it with Voth and Rodriguez.   Same idea.   Let Rodriguez start and go 3-5 innings with Voth coming in and, hopefully, going 5 IP each time.    I guess you get the Lefty/Righty advantage when pairing Hall with Rodriguez but I think there is more certainty of pairing the veteran Voth with Rodriguez.

[Aristotelian]

39 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I’d like to see them have Grayson and Hall kind of tag team games to limit both of their innings. If they can give you 7 innings between them every 5 games, it limits their innings so they can still pitch at the end of the season and maximizes the number of innings your best pitchers throw in Baltimore. We have enough swing starter type pitchers that we should be able to cover all the innings. 

 I'd like to see Grayson used as a 1-2 inning opener in April and ramp him up from there. If they are conservative early he could end up pitching 5+ down the stretch and stay under 120 for the year.

Seems like they want Hall to start the year in AAA. Then they can promote him in whatever role based on performance and need.

[MarCakes21]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt they will play service time with Grayson just to play service time games, but I would not be surprised if they try to get an extra year while trying to manage his innings this year. I know we all hate to hear that, but it would not surprise me if he doesn't make the rotation out of the spring training.

Now, I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong, but they probably want to keep him around 120 innings this year so how they do that will be interesting. I guess if you can gain an extra year of control then it might be worth it.

I agree they'll play for 120 and allow it to go to 140-160 if we're in the playoff hunt and he's our number 1.  They'll put him every 6 days in the minors and piggy back him when he comes up.

[MarCakes21]

 

2 hours ago, waroriole said:

I’d like to see them have Grayson and Hall kind of tag team games to limit both of their innings. If they can give you 7 innings between them every 5 games, it limits their innings so they can still pitch at the end of the season and maximizes the number of innings your best pitchers throw in Baltimore. We have enough swing starter type pitchers that we should be able to cover all the innings. 

Except I was DL to remain a starter, not a long man.  Do whats best to optimize that

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

 

Except I was DL to remain a starter, not a long man.  Do whats best to optimize that

I do think the best thing, if you hope he'll be a starter, is to keep him on a regular turn and not ask him to do too much.   So, going every 5 days and being counted on for 3 innings would be the base.   If he starts to really roll with that role, then maybe increase the innings a bit after awhile.    Probably the easiest way to do that is to pair him with another starter, whether Hall is the opener or the reliever I don't think makes that much difference but probably less pressure as the reliever.

[ThisIsBirdland]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I do think the best thing, if you hope he'll be a starter, is to keep him on a regular turn and not ask him to do too much.   So, going every 5 days and being counted on for 3 innings would be the base.   If he starts to really roll with that role, then maybe increase the innings a bit after awhile.    Probably the easiest way to do that is to pair him with another starter, whether Hall is the opener or the reliever I don't think makes that much difference but probably less pressure as the reliever.

I imagine using GRod in an opener role for Hall would create some nice matchup headaches for managers too.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

I imagine using GRod in an opener role for Hall would create some nice matchup headaches for managers too.

Sure.  There are definitely advantages to doing the piggyback thing with a lefty and a righty versus both RH or both LH.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

He's immune to all evidence.

It really is weird. I mean, Wildcard is usually the guy that will die on a hill of evidence against his stance if it supports an Orioles player. Somehow, Irvin has hit a nerve with Wildcard. 

I mean, he argued for Frazier, Bemboom, and a host of DFA'd acquired players but thinks Irvin will have to battle for the last spot in the bullpen with the Orioles this year and will be out of the rotation by May.

Honestly, I think Irvin is the best player Elias acquired this offseason.