Orioles Acquire LHP Cole Irvin from the A's for Darrel Hernaiz

[ThisIsBirdland]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Narrative change…

Irvin had a 3.35 ERA through August. Let that sink in. September on, he had a 6.75 ERA. Why the 6.75 ERA?  Well he got lit up in two HOME starts vs the Mets and Braves. 9.1 IP 16 ER

Browse through the game logs,

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=irvinco01&t=p&year=2022

I think the game logs show that the better teams put up more runs on him. He just happened to mostly face those teams on the road.  Until September…

 

Between the year end struggles and his absolutely terrible 1st inning numbers, it would be great if these issues were somehow addressable by coaching/gameplan setup. He really was apparently very good once he settled into games.

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, MarCakes21 said:

While we're all arguing over who is and who isn't in the rotation, I'll throw my Elias thinking on the table:

Keep GRod down to play service time, and go with Gibson, Irvin, Bradish, Kremer, Voth (with Wells piggy back) to start the season assuming no injury

When we can bring GRod up, we do and go to a 6 man, continuing the Wells piggy back for Voth/GRod to manage his innings and give us a better shot in September.

All injury dependent, and leaves DL at AAA with a SP job, and could drop to 5 man, or call up DL as next man up.

Yes, it could play out like this.  We’re obviously not pot committed in 2023.  And there’s a lot of evidence that the goal is a perennial contender vs. the shorter termed view of just making the playoffs asap.

[crowmst3k!]

5 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Yes, it could play out like this.  We’re obviously not pot committed in 2023.  And there’s a lot of evidence that the goal is a perennial contender vs. the shorter termed view of just making the playoffs asap.

Probably will.  

GRod can get some strict inning limit starts in AAA for the first couple of months then stretch out for the call-up to Baltimore. 

[MarCakes21]

3 minutes ago, crowmst3k! said:

Probably will.  

GRod can get some strict inning limit starts in AAA for the first couple of months then stretch out for the call-up to Baltimore. 

Yup that's my point.  And then you can decide around the deadline how to use his innings, push him to 150+ or maintain him at 120 depending upon if we're contending.  Irvin makes more sense for controlling GRod.

[E-D-D-I-E]

12 hours ago, wildcard said:

I am not sure hitters will be pulling in Camden.   Maybe on the road.

You honestly believe hitters will attempt to go the other way as right handed hitters, at Camden yards? Have you not seen the affects of the shift in baseball, the last few years? It works because  hitters hit the way they hit. Not to mention guys all throwing 95+.

Irvin is a meh starter on that we agree. At 28 I hope there is a tad bit of upside.

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Between the year end struggles and his absolutely terrible 1st inning numbers, it would be great if these issues were somehow addressable by coaching/gameplan setup. He really was apparently very good once he settled into games.

I looked at the terrible 1st inning numbers as well but then I checked his 2021 splits and there was no real issue in the 1st inning so I'm not sure it's an issue just based on last year.

[Sports Guy]

He’s a middling at best type pitcher.  No reason to try and dissect what ifs. If it’s not first innings this year, it will be something else.

He doesn’t get Ks, doesn’t miss a lot of bats and has mediocre stuff. He’s only going to be so good. He has a relatively high floor but a low ceiling.

Thats fine.

[Safelykept]

38 minutes ago, crowmst3k! said:

Probably will.  

GRod can get some strict inning limit starts in AAA for the first couple of months then stretch out for the call-up to Baltimore. 

Cant see grayson throwing even one pitch at AAA. What you might see is Gibson, Irvin, Kramer, Bradish, and Voth as your 5 starters to open the season. Wells And Grayson to the pen to start the the season  to save innings and Hall to start at AAA then at about Memorial Day you can start to stretch Grod out. This gives you added depth as to first injury you bring these 2 up to start This reinforces your starting 5. Hall Kriebal bauman etc Reinforce the pen when Wells And Grod move up or needed in case of injury or non performance Also makes the pen Better to start the Season

 

 

[waroriole]

2 hours ago, MarCakes21 said:

While we're all arguing over who is and who isn't in the rotation, I'll throw my Elias thinking on the table:

Keep GRod down to play service time, and go with Gibson, Irvin, Bradish, Kremer, Voth (with Wells piggy back) to start the season assuming no injury

When we can bring GRod up, we do and go to a 6 man, continuing the Wells piggy back for Voth/GRod to manage his innings and give us a better shot in September.

All injury dependent, and leaves DL at AAA with a SP job, and could drop to 5 man, or call up DL as next man up.

This is very likely how it will play out and it will be absolutely infuriating. Still not trying to win a playoff spot, and still playing service time games on a guy who should’ve been up early last year. 

[Tony-OH]

37 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s a middling at best type pitcher.  No reason to try and dissect what ifs. If it’s not first innings this year, it will be something else.

He doesn’t get Ks, doesn’t miss a lot of bats and has mediocre stuff. He’s only going to be so good. He has a relatively high floor but a low ceiling.

Thats fine.

That's a pretty good way of putting it overall. If Holt can find a tick on the fastball or improve the curve or change, he could be better than expected. Saying that, eve if he's the guy he was last year he's fine as a #4 starter and besides, he gives the rotation a left-hander, something it's been missing since Means went down (Zimmermann struggled).

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

All I am saying is that Irvin appears to be the 7th best starter the O's have.  For me he is behind Wells and Voth in effectiveness.    What Elias/Hyde/Holt decide to do is a different matter.

Holt makes pitchers better.  I look for him to make all the pitchers better including Irvin.  But he should make Wells and Voth better at the same time.

OK, fair enough POV.   I put a lot of credit into a guy who has managed to throw 178 and 181 innings the last two years.   That’s stamina and durability none of the O’s incumbent pitchers have shown at this point in their careers, and that’s the main reason I think he’ll be in the OD rotation.  He could pitch himself out of that spot, but I hope he doesn’t.   I hope he continues with the stamina and durability and also shows some improvement in run prevention.  We’ll see how he does and how the other pitchers do.  And, who stays healthy.  

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

OK, fair enough POV.   I put a lot of credit into a guy who has managed to throw 178 and 181 innings the last two years.   That’s stamina and durability none of the O’s incumbent pitchers have shown at this point in their careers, and that’s the main reason I think he’ll be in the OD rotation.  He could pitch himself out of that spot, but I hope he doesn’t.   I hope he continues with the stamina and durability and also shows some improvement in run prevention.  We’ll see how he does and how the other pitchers do.  And, who stays healthy.  

I agree with you.  Another thing to consider is how Irvin might fare in the bullpen.   We know that Wells, in particular, has looked good in a bullpen role.  What would Irvin's role even be in the bullpen?     It just doesn't add up that he's not a lock for the rotation.

Edited January 28, 2023 by RZNJ

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, waroriole said:

This is very likely how it will play out and it will be absolutely infuriating. Still not trying to win a playoff spot, and still playing service time games on a guy who should’ve been up early last year. 

I doubt they will play service time with Grayson just to play service time games, but I would not be surprised if they try to get an extra year while trying to manage his innings this year. I know we all hate to hear that, but it would not surprise me if he doesn't make the rotation out of the spring training.

Now, I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong, but they probably want to keep him around 120 innings this year so how they do that will be interesting. I guess if you can gain an extra year of control then it might be worth it.

[waroriole]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt they will play service time with Grayson just to play service time games, but I would not be surprised if they try to get an extra year while trying to manage his innings this year. I know we all hate to hear that, but it would not surprise me if he doesn't make the rotation out of the spring training.

Now, I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong, but they probably want to keep him around 120 innings this year so how they do that will be interesting. I guess if you can gain an extra year of control then it might be worth it.

I feel like that is playing service time games. He’s not being kept off the ML team on OD because he’s not ready, but only to take advantage of getting an extra year of team control. If he’s starting the year in Norfolk, you’re just wasting the number of innings he has to pitch. 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

I feel like that is playing service time games. He’s not being kept off the ML team on OD because he’s not ready, but only to take advantage of getting an extra year of team control. If he’s starting the year in Norfolk, you’re just wasting the number of innings he has to pitch. 

Also, doesn't the international league season start a little bit after the ML season?   I mean, how many innings are they really going to save him by starting him AAA?   Not many.    Elias said they were just about to bring him up when he had the last injury.   It wouldn't bother me that much if they played the service time game but if GrayRod looks really good this spring and they send him down it might not go over that well the GrayRod.