Anthony Santander 2023

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, Hallas said:

Uh, we've had some hitters come through that have been good.  Our system was broken but not *that* broken.  Cal,  Brian Roberts,  Nick Markakis,  Adam Jones, Melvin Mora (he's questionable in terms of counting but he didn't blossom until he was with the O's.)  All of those guys have at least 2 seasons that were better batting seasons than Santander's best.

 

To be honest, he might be one of our better hitters, but we have such a position player crunch in the pipeline that I'm not sure I'd rather keep Santander over those guys.  Even if Cowser bombs out, we have Kjerstad and Mayo coming in behind him that can play RF.

If you are counting Cal, you are going all the way back to 1982, 40 years.  You can't really count Mora (Mets) or Jones (Mariners) as being developed by the O's.  You of course have to count Robert's and Markakis.  So that's 2 All Star level hitters since after Cal debuted.  I forgot Mullins, that's 3. If that's not broken, I'm not sure what is.  This current group of Elias O's already has 2 All Sfar level players in Adley and Gunnar.  I believe Holliday is close to a sure thing too.  So that's as many All Star level hitters in less than 5 years as the previous 35 years.

[Bahama O's Fan]

2 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If you are counting Cal, you are going all the way back to 1982, 40 years.  You can't really count Mora (Mets) or Jones (Mariners) as being developed by the O's.  You of course have to count Robert's and Markakis.  So that's 2 All Star level hitters since after Cal debuted.  I forgot Mullins, that's 3. If that's not broken, I'm not sure what is.  This current group of Elias O's already has 2 All Sfar level players in Adley and Gunnar.  I believe Holliday is close to a sure thing too.  So that's as many All Star level hitters in less than 5 years as the previous 35 years.

Machado? Did Weiters make it as an all star?

[EddeeEddee]

2 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If you are counting Cal, you are going all the way back to 1982, 40 years.  You can't really count Mora (Mets) or Jones (Mariners) as being developed by the O's.  You of course have to count Robert's and Markakis.  So that's 2 All Star level hitters since after Cal debuted.  I forgot Mullins, that's 3. If that's not broken, I'm not sure what is.  This current group of Elias O's already has 2 All Sfar level players in Adley and Gunnar.  I believe Holliday is close to a sure thing too.  So that's as many All Star level hitters in less than 5 years as the previous 35 years.

Yeah, if you're just talking homegrown All-stars since the early 80s you need to include Manny Machado, Matt Wieters, Jonathan Schoop and Brady Anderson (even though Brady was drafted by Boston he didn't reach the majors until he came to Baltimore).  Btw, did Nick Markakis never make a single All-Star game?  Doesn't seem like he did, but they've grown some players like him too who were quite good if never All-Stars.

Also consider the handful of homegrown hitters the O's traded early who prospered elsewhere -- like Jayson Werth and Steve Finley.  

It's interesting -- the O's are usually criticized for failing to develop pitchers, not hitters -- maybe because they seem to have traded away more eventual excellent pitchers than hitters.  

But even in their worst years the O's generally seemed to have pretty good hitting, being able to sign/acquire many good role player hitters as well as star names like Miguel Tejada and Chris Davis.  Davis is an example of a hitter the O's acquired that performed much better when he got to Baltimore (for a few years anyway).  

[emmett16]

4 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If you are counting Cal, you are going all the way back to 1982, 40 years.  You can't really count Mora (Mets) or Jones (Mariners) as being developed by the O's.  You of course have to count Robert's and Markakis.  So that's 2 All Star level hitters since after Cal debuted.  I forgot Mullins, that's 3. If that's not broken, I'm not sure what is.  This current group of Elias O's already has 2 All Sfar level players in Adley and Gunnar.  I believe Holliday is close to a sure thing too.  So that's as many All Star level hitters in less than 5 years as the previous 35 years.

Do you consider Hays to be developed by the current admin?

[Frobby]

The idea that Santander is the best hitter we’ve had since Eddie is laughable.  The guy has a career OPS+ of 109 and a career best of 125.  Here’s a partial list of Orioles who topped that:

Ripken 112/162

Anderson 110/156

Palmeiro 127/145

Hoiles 119/162

Tettleton 128/150

Alomar 122/136

Markakis 113/136

Tejada 119/131

Mora 109/155

That’s without me thinking very hard about it.

On the current team:

Rutschman 124/130

Henderson 122/125

 

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The idea that Santander is the best hitter we’ve had since Eddie is laughable.  The guy has a career OPS+ of 109 and a career best of 125.  Here’s a partial list of Orioles who topped that:

Ripken 112/162

Anderson 110/156

Palmeiro 127/145

Hoiles 119/162

Tettleton 128/150

Alomar 122/136

Markakis 113/136

Tejada 119/131

Mora 109/155

That’s without me thinking very hard about it.

On the current team:

Rutschman 124/130

Henderson 122/125

 

I like AS but people overrate him dramatically. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I like AS but people overrate him dramatically. 

Some people.  Everyone has their players they rate too high or too low.  Mountcastle has always been a lightning rod for that.  (By the way, he has a significantly higher career OPS+ than Santander too.  I didn’t list him above because his peak is lower unless you include 2020.)

[Just Regular]

6 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If you are counting Cal, you are going all the way back to 1982, 40 years.  You can't really count Mora (Mets) or Jones (Mariners) as being developed by the O's.  You of course have to count Robert's and Markakis.  So that's 2 All Star level hitters since after Cal debuted.  I forgot Mullins, that's 3. If that's not broken, I'm not sure what is.  This current group of Elias O's already has 2 All Sfar level players in Adley and Gunnar.  I believe Holliday is close to a sure thing too.  So that's as many All Star level hitters in less than 5 years as the previous 35 years.

Don't forget Christian Walker, who we'll see this weekend as a visitor against a home team in a hot playoff fight.

He's up to 12.5 career WAR, 114 OPS+ in 2500 PA, and 3.0 WAR per 162 games.     Per 162, Santander is 2.2, and Hays is 2.9, in the B-Ref reckoning of such things.

[spleen1015]

50 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The idea that Santander is the best hitter we’ve had since Eddie is laughable.  The guy has a career OPS+ of 109 and a career best of 125.  Here’s a partial list of Orioles who topped that:

Ripken 112/162

Anderson 110/156

Palmeiro 127/145

Hoiles 119/162

Tettleton 128/150

Alomar 122/136

Markakis 113/136

Tejada 119/131

Mora 109/155

That’s without me thinking very hard about it.

On the current team:

Rutschman 124/130

Henderson 122/125

 

I was a teenager when Hoiles was around and I wasn't too much into stats back then, but I can't believe Hoiles was that good.

 

Santander might be our best power bat right now but that doesn't mean he has to stay that way if we keep him. The team still needs players like him to have a complete roster. I think he needs to stick around long enough to see what we get from the prospects, another year or 2 at least.

[Aristotelian]

I like Santander and hope to keep him next year but I do not think he is the best hitter since Eddie. Not to pile on (okay, just piling on!), adding to this list, Manny averaged over 120 for us not counting his rookie year, with a high of 162, and Cruz put up 137.

I think Adam Jones numbers are probably pretty close to Santander. He has a career 106. If you toss his worst and best he was between 101-118 every year. Surhoff also averaged 109. And despite the hate, Mountcastle on the current team is averaging 115.

But these are all good hitters to be in company with, and I agree with OP that switch hitting is a nice skill set that is tough to quantify. I value his consistent production from year to year as well. 

54 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The idea that Santander is the best hitter we’ve had since Eddie is laughable.  The guy has a career OPS+ of 109 and a career best of 125.  Here’s a partial list of Orioles who topped that:

Ripken 112/162

Anderson 110/156

Palmeiro 127/145

Hoiles 119/162

Tettleton 128/150

Alomar 122/136

Markakis 113/136

Tejada 119/131

Mora 109/155

That’s without me thinking very hard about it.

On the current team:

Rutschman 124/130

Henderson 122/125

 

 

[Aristotelian]

15 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

I was a teenager when Hoiles was around and I wasn't too much into stats back then, but I can't believe Hoiles was that good.

 

Santander might be our best power bat right now but that doesn't mean he has to stay that way if we keep him. The team still needs players like him to have a complete roster. I think he needs to stick around long enough to see what we get from the prospects, another year or 2 at least.

Hoiles was a beast. Tremendously underrated player. 

Harold Baines is another.

[Can_of_corn]

The whole best hitter since Eddie thing has been misread.

First off they meant power hitter so Roberts is exempted.

Secondly they were only talking about switch hitters for some reason.  I don't get why that would make a difference but this started with someone quoting one of those specific statistical achievements the media likes to foster on us. 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[Frobby]

Switch hitting is overrated IMO.  The real issue is, how well do you hit RHP vs. LHP?  Now in Santander’s case, he has a career .762 vs. RHP, .783 vs. LHP.  That’s nice and even, though actually you’d prefer the numbers vs. RHP to be the strong side, since 70% of at bats are vs. RHP.  But still, nice even splits.  Eddie wasn’t as even, .860 vs. RHP, .785 vs. LHP.   But above average both ways.  

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The whole best hitter since Eddie thing has been misread.

First off they meant power hitter so Roberts is exempted.

Secondly they were only talking about switch hitters for some reason.  I don't get why that would make a difference but this started with someone quoting one of those specific statistical achievements the media likes to foster on us. 

 

OP said "best hitter, let alone switch hitter." Follow up post said "How many of them are switch hitters?" It's not clear to me they are backing off the original claim or stipulating that the best hitter has to be a switch hitter. He then said first SH to hit 25+ in consecutive seasons, which is a cool fact. 

I may have missed but I also don't see anything about power specifically or what exactly that means but I'd go with Palmeiro and Cruz pretty easily as Santander has never slugged over .500. But they aren't switch hitters, so who knows. 

[baltimoriole]

This board makes me laugh. Santander has been blistering hot lately. At times he's carried the team. He's consistent good, although not great. He's been a heart of the order batter all year on the best team in the AL. Seems like a huge culture guy, team leader, in his prime, yadda yadda. The only comments posters have about him is he's overrated, not that good, should be traded for a kyle stower type prospect. Cool.