The 2023 attendance thread

[Bemorewins]

To be very honest, what happened in 2015 with the Freddie Gray death/situation was sad/unfortunate, but it was a LONG TIME AGO now. It literally has less than ZERO impact on whether I attend O’s games nor does my “safety”. I have been to several O’s games this year during the day and at night and did not feel unsafe or threatened a single time. 

However, what has impacted my interest in attending O’s games the remainder of the season is John Angelos’ wretchedness. Frankly, he has done his darnedest to kill the joy of fans and damper enthusiasm. And frankly, as much as I’ve tried to fight it, it has taken a toll. I just don’t feel as motivated to go out of my way to spend money on the team right now. And this is coming from a person who has probably spent around $3,000 - 3,500 on games/merch/food at the stadium/etc. I’ve even attended a couple of road series while traveling this Summer. 

I’m debating with myself if I even want to attend playoff games at this point. JA has really done a number on me. I still love the team and always will. I’m just struggling to stay positive and as enthused with him in charge and doing his best to run the team off of a cliff. It almost feels like the old movie “Major League” with him in charge.

[accinfo]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

To be very honest, what happened in 2015 with the Freddie Gray death/situation was sad/unfortunate, but it was a LONG TIME AGO now. It literally has less than ZERO impact on whether I attend O’s games nor does my “safety”. I have been to several O’s games this year during the day and at night and did not feel unsafe or threatened a single time. 

However, what has impacted my interest in attending O’s games the remainder of the season is John Angelos’ wretchedness. Frankly, he has done his darnedest to kill the joy of fans and damper enthusiasm. And frankly, as much as I’ve tried to fight it, it has taken a toll. I just don’t feel as motivated to go out of my way to spend money on the team right now. And this is coming from a person who has probably spent around $3,000 - 3,500 on games/merch/food at the stadium/etc. I’ve even attended a couple of road series while traveling this Summer. 

I’m debating with myself if I even want to attend playoff games at this point. JA has really done a number on me. I still love the team and always will. I’m just struggling to stay positive and as enthused with him in charge and doing his best to run the team off of a cliff. It almost feels like the old movie “Major League” with him in charge.

Don’t let him spoil your fun.  He is going to be well off whether or not you decide to go to a playoff game.  You are supporting these players for what they have accomplished.  They seem well deserved of our support.

[Daddy-O's]

13 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

To be very honest, what happened in 2015 with the Freddie Gray death/situation was sad/unfortunate, but it was a LONG TIME AGO now. It literally has less than ZERO impact on whether I attend O’s games nor does my “safety”. I have been to several O’s games this year during the day and at night and did not feel unsafe or threatened a single time. 

However, what has impacted my interest in attending O’s games the remainder of the season is John Angelos’ wretchedness. Frankly, he has done his darnedest to kill the joy of fans and damper enthusiasm. And frankly, as much as I’ve tried to fight it, it has taken a toll. I just don’t feel as motivated to go out of my way to spend money on the team right now. And this is coming from a person who has probably spent around $3,000 - 3,500 on games/merch/food at the stadium/etc. I’ve even attended a couple of road series while traveling this Summer. 

I’m debating with myself if I even want to attend playoff games at this point. JA has really done a number on me. I still love the team and always will. I’m just struggling to stay positive and as enthused with him in charge and doing his best to run the team off of a cliff. It almost feels like the old movie “Major League” with him in charge.

Not sure I understand this thinking.  He has been smart enough to bring in good baseball people and let them do their thing.  Our team has the best record in the American league and the number one farm system.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Daddy-O's said:

Not sure I understand this thinking.  He has been smart enough to bring in good baseball people and let them do their thing.  Our team has the best record in the American league and the number one farm system.

I can't help but think John kinda lucked into Elias.

Now obviously Elias was a qualified candidate, but I do have to wonder if the deciding factor was that a Astros style rebuild would result in a slashed to the bones payroll for a number of years.

[baltfan]

32 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

To be very honest, what happened in 2015 with the Freddie Gray death/situation was sad/unfortunate, but it was a LONG TIME AGO now. It literally has less than ZERO impact on whether I attend O’s games nor does my “safety”. I have been to several O’s games this year during the day and at night and did not feel unsafe or threatened a single time. 

However, what has impacted my interest in attending O’s games the remainder of the season is John Angelos’ wretchedness. Frankly, he has done his darnedest to kill the joy of fans and damper enthusiasm. And frankly, as much as I’ve tried to fight it, it has taken a toll. I just don’t feel as motivated to go out of my way to spend money on the team right now. And this is coming from a person who has probably spent around $3,000 - 3,500 on games/merch/food at the stadium/etc. I’ve even attended a couple of road series while traveling this Summer. 

I’m debating with myself if I even want to attend playoff games at this point. JA has really done a number on me. I still love the team and always will. I’m just struggling to stay positive and as enthused with him in charge and doing his best to run the team off of a cliff. It almost feels like the old movie “Major League” with him in charge.

This, they drew 2.17 MM the year after in 2016.  The year drew 2.28 MM in 2015 and the Gray riots happened in June.   They drew 2.028 MM in 2017 despite winning only 75 games.  The team this year has drawn 1.419 MM with 19 games left.  Freddie Gray isn't affecting attendance.  There are other things at work.  Hopefully, it improves at least to 2016 levels next year or even better 2014 levels.  Another worrisome thing is that in 2012 which seems to be most similar in terms of the team pulling wins out and excitement, the team drew 2.10 MM.  It's kinda surprising this team isn't on that pace.

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there are less games against AL East clubs which the Orioles tend to draw better against.  That could be part of the issue.

 

[baltfan]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I can't help but think John kinda lucked into Elias.

Now obviously Elias was a qualified candidate, but I do have to wonder if the deciding factor was that a Astros style rebuild would result in a slashed to the bones payroll for a number of years.

This is really unfair to John.  All of these aspiring GMs made pitches and he had to pick the best one.  Moreover, he seems to have basically given Elias carte blanche re: budget allocation and signed him to a long term contract (no one knows Elias's deal but he says he is signed for a long time). 

John can be cheap but also still want to win.  He just realizes that you can do both like the Rays do and tried to pick a guy that could duplicate their success.  

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, baltfan said:

This, they drew 2.17 MM the year after in 2016.  The year drew 2.28 MM in 2015 and the Gray riots happened in June.   They drew 2.028 MM in 2017 despite winning only 75 games.  The team this year has drawn 1.419 MM with 19 games left.  Freddie Gray isn't affecting attendance.  There are other things at work.  Hopefully, it improves at least to 2016 levels next year or even better 2014 levels.  Another worrisome thing is that in 2012 which seems to be most similar in terms of the team pulling wins out and excitement, the team drew 2.10 MM.  It's kinda surprising this team isn't on that pace.

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there are less games against AL East clubs which the Orioles tend to draw better against.  That could be part of the issue.

 

The reason we aren’t approaching 2012 is we had a lower season ticket base to start the season.  Ticket sales are really a function of two things:

1. How good was the team the previous season?   That drives expectations, which drives advance season ticket sales, which are the vast majority of tickets sold.  

2.  How good is the team in the current seadon?   That drives walk-up and in-season advance sales.   

Here, the pandemic was a.huge factor.  Nobody went to a baseball game in 2020.  In 2021, attendance was restricted for the first two months, and the team was expected to stink and did stink, so attendance was still extraordinarily low.  Not many people bought season tickets for 2022, because the team had been bad and nobody expected them to be good.  But they got nice walk-up once the team started playing well, so attendance grew but it was still way below 2011.  The increase this year will be maybe 500,000, which is significantly more than the 350,000 jump in 2012, so that’s encouraging. They are digging out of a very deep hole, is all.  

Next year will be interesting,  in 2013, following the first playoff appearance in 14 years, attendance was up 250,900 even though that team missed the playoffs and was pretty much out of the race in the last homestand or two.  I think next year’s attendance will exceed the 250,000 jump for 2013, both because expectations for next year will be higher than for 2013, and because the 2024 team will be better than the 2013 team.  But of course, we’ll see about that. 

 

[Moshagge3]

Tonight is the first anniversary of the game where Kyle Stowers hit his first big league home run to tie the game in the ninth after what would have been a game-ending foulout was dropped. That was probably the most memorable game I attended last year and it was a Thursday night. I looked at the box score and the attendance was only 13,905. So that's a pretty nice 40% bump from year to year. 

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, accinfo said:

Don’t let him spoil your fun.  He is going to be well off whether or not you decide to go to a playoff game.  You are supporting these players for what they have accomplished.  They seem well deserved of our support.

I don't dispute what you are saying at all. The players, coaches, and front office have all had amazing seasons worthy of our support!

I know that I can't do anything to impact Angelos and influence him to operate in a decent/professional way. But I was just being honest in expressing how conflicted that I am in supporting him and spending money on the team right now. I was at the last homestand before the west coast trip (went to a couple of the Astros games). 

But after his recent comments about not resigning/extending players, it just really stung (combined with his general awfulness). This is current run of great young players is probably the best that we will ever have it. It may the one chance in my lifetime to see and O's dynasty (multi-championship run). But I see now that no matter how good it is/gets, Angelos will find a way to ruin it and in the process run all of the good/great players/coaches/executives away. It just also seems temporary and inevitable. But I am still trying to enjoy it while it last.

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, Daddy-O's said:

Not sure I understand this thinking.  He has been smart enough to bring in good baseball people and let them do their thing.  Our team has the best record in the American league and the number one farm system.

I'm glad that you don't or have chosen not to. I want to enjoy the team's success and believe in a bright/promising future. But when the owner continues to take every opportunity to remind us that he has NO (like literally ZERO) intentions of supporting the franchises long term success, it feels very temporary and inevitable that this will all be aborted by Angelos and be over very soon.

It's not the same, but I had kind of a similar bad feeling last football season, while on the way to Metlife stadium and got the news that Lamar Jackson turned down the contract extension. I knew from there that our season would be doomed. I am very glad that he and the Ravens figured it out this past offseason and I have a totally different vibe about the team now.

This is not to say that the Orioles postseason hopes will be doomed because of JA this season. But it most certainly gives me the feeling that we will never become what we could because he will not do anything to assist the org in being great. I wouldn't even describe him as a passenger on the ship. He's more like an anchor.

[jabba72]

2 hours ago, baltfan said:

This, they drew 2.17 MM the year after in 2016.  The year drew 2.28 MM in 2015 and the Gray riots happened in June.   They drew 2.028 MM in 2017 despite winning only 75 games.  The team this year has drawn 1.419 MM with 19 games left.  Freddie Gray isn't affecting attendance.  There are other things at work.  Hopefully, it improves at least to 2016 levels next year or even better 2014 levels.  Another worrisome thing is that in 2012 which seems to be most similar in terms of the team pulling wins out and excitement, the team drew 2.10 MM.  It's kinda surprising this team isn't on that pace.

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there are less games against AL East clubs which the Orioles tend to draw better against.  That could be part of the issue.

 

Yes, in the past 18 games were vs the Yankees and Red Sox. 22% of the schedule was guaranteed to bring in a big crowd. Now its 13 games a year. Not huge but a decline nonetheless. 

[spiritof66]

2 hours ago, baltfan said:

T.  .  .

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there are less games against AL East clubs which the Orioles tend to draw better against.  That could be part of the issue.

 

The games where Camden Yards gets the biggest influx of visiting team fans are against the NYYs and RS.  There are fewer of those games, and the level of enhusiasm among fans of both those teams, as well as the reduction in the number of games, is lower than it's been for a while. I don't know how you'd measure the effect of that on Oriole home attendance, but I doubt it's zero.

[accinfo]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I don't dispute what you are saying at all. The players, coaches, and front office have all had amazing seasons worthy of our support!

I know that I can't do anything to impact Angelos and influence him to operate in a decent/professional way. But I was just being honest in expressing how conflicted that I am in supporting him and spending money on the team right now. I was at the last homestand before the west coast trip (went to a couple of the Astros games). 

But after his recent comments about not resigning/extending players, it just really stung (combined with his general awfulness). This is current run of great young players is probably the best that we will ever have it. It may the one chance in my lifetime to see and O's dynasty (multi-championship run). But I see now that no matter how good it is/gets, Angelos will find a way to ruin it and in the process run all of the good/great players/coaches/executives away. It just also seems temporary and inevitable. But I am still trying to enjoy it while it last.

I get what you are saying.  I will assume I am older than you and probably might have felt the same 20 years ago.  In my later years, I have tried to live by the philosophy to worry about the things you can control and let go of the things you can’t.  Many things good are temporary and many bad things are inevitable.  I hope we all get to see some kind of O’s dynasty however long it lasts.  

[Bemorewins]

21 minutes ago, accinfo said:

I get what you are saying.  I will assume I am older than you and probably might have felt the same 20 years ago.  In my later years, I have tried to live by the philosophy to worry about the things you can control and let go of the things you can’t.  Many things good are temporary and many bad things are inevitable.  I hope we all get to see some kind of O’s dynasty however long it lasts.  

Great words of wisdom! I appreciate you sharing this with me.

[foxfield]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I'm glad that you don't or have chosen not to. I want to enjoy the team's success and believe in a bright/promising future. But when the owner continues to take every opportunity to remind us that he has NO (like literally ZERO) intentions of supporting the franchises long term success, it feels very temporary and inevitable that this will all be aborted by Angelos and be over very soon.

It's not the same, but I had kind of a similar bad feeling last football season, while on the way to Metlife stadium and got the news that Lamar Jackson turned down the contract extension. I knew from there that our season would be doomed. I am very glad that he and the Ravens figured it out this past offseason and I have a totally different vibe about the team now.

This is not to say that the Orioles postseason hopes will be doomed because of JA this season. But it most certainly gives me the feeling that we will never become what we could because he will not do anything to assist the org in being great. I wouldn't even describe him as a passenger on the ship. He's more like an anchor.

Let’s not put too much faith in JA comments he can’t afford our stars. I mean he also said he would open the books. He says what he thinks he needs to say. I think he wants to win.