Joey Ortiz 2023

[Tony-OH]

29 minutes ago, justD said:

I know Vavra isn't hitting, but he's still more versatile than Ortiz.  I even question how well Ortiz will handle 2B if placed there, just because he doesn't play there very often. 

Ortiz has been very good at 2B during the times I've seen him play there. He doesn't have a lot of games there, but I have little doubt he will be an elite defender there.

[Just Regular]

@Bemorewinsthanks for the nice response - go O's.    Briefly as I can:

-no Club will seriously try to acquire Ohtani without the player's tacit blessing.    Being poetical with Adley, he's just a proxy for BAL as good.

-means = #1 farm system.    

-motive = a Club with enough inherent Playoff Probability to rate bolstering

-I believe John Angelos entrusts Mike Elias with this Baseball Ops decision, and the stockpile exists to be used.   

You've said in another post we need to trade for starting pitching, and I agree!    Shohei I believe would cost less to Elias' long haul strategy than Dylan Cease to acquire.     I don't believe guys like Lynn and Giolito move the needle much vs. hoping for 3-4 innings from Bradish or Wells and then bullpen guys should we reach the tournament for a few days or couple weeks.

Whether it is Ohtani, Cease or anyone, process wise its good that early results indicate Elias has his first real team to consider what to do with.    I'm just saying he should be IN on any Good or Great Pitcher if this keeps up.

 

[baltfan]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Ortiz has been very good at 2B during the times I've seen him play there. He doesn't have a lot of games there, but I have little doubt he will be an elite defender there.

Do you think he will be comparable to Urias there?

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The point that you raise is a very valid one! We have too many guys and limited spots. And I don't necessarily disagree with your pecking order.

The problem with this though is that you can't keep the guys in the Minors forever. Ortiz is going to be 25 this year. Keeping him in AAA for the entire season or most of it would be irresponsible and mismanagement of an organizational asset.

If he or Westburg/Cowser/Norby are deemed not to be able to contribute this year and help us win, then they need to be moved for pieces that can achieve this objective. I don't think we can afford any longer to be in a holding pattern.

People keep bring up the fact that Ortiz turns 25 this year.  So what.   He missed most of a year due to injury and hasn't been held back at all in the minors.   He got hot in AA last year and got promoted to AAA.   He got one month there last year and another month so far this year.   Can we please stop acting like he's been stuck in Purgatory?    Sorry for the religious reference!!!

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

Do you think he will be comparable to Urias there?

He'll be much better. Ortiz has much more range and a better arm than Urias. He doesn't have a ton of experience turning DPs from 2B, but when i have seen him do it, he looked just fine.

[baltfan]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

He'll be much better. Ortiz has much more range and a better arm than Urias. He doesn't have a ton of experience turning DPs from 2B, but when i have seen him do it, he looked just fine.

I will say I have been far from impressed by Frazier's turning of the double play.  He has a noodle arm.

[Just Regular]

10 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If he or Westburg/Cowser/Norby are deemed not to be able to contribute this year and help us win, then they need to be moved for pieces that can achieve this objective. I don't think we can afford any longer to be in a holding pattern.

Agree!

Who should we get?

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, baltfan said:

I will say I have been far from impressed by Frazier's turning of the double play.  He has a noodle arm.

Frazier has a quick release and an accurate arm, but I agree, his arm strength is below par. His 72.4 MPH avg throw is 20th of 24 2nd baseman's with at least 50 throws this year. Saying that, he does have the 4th highest max throw from 2B at 87.1 MPH so it may be an issue of him using just what he needs to get the ball there in time. 

I find him adequate at 2B, but his defense doesn't outweigh his well below average stick. I much rather run Ortiz out there everyday at 2B.

[Otter]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Frazier has a quick release and an accurate arm, but I agree, his arm strength is below par. His 72.4 MPH avg throw is 20th of 24 2nd baseman's with at least 50 throws this year. Saying that, he does have the 4th highest max throw from 2B at 87.1 MPH so it may be an issue of him using just what he needs to get the ball there in time. 

I find him adequate at 2B, but his defense doesn't outweigh his well below average stick. I much rather run Ortiz out there everyday at 2B.

Completely agree; but do you think Hyde will play Ortiz over Frazier?  I expect Ortiz to get the Stowers treatment and start in less than 50% of the games.

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, Otter said:

Completely agree; but do you think Hyde will play Ortiz over Frazier?  I expect Ortiz to get the Stowers treatment and start in less than 50% of the games.

After Stowers, I have zero faith that the Orioles will start the best player on the roster. Maybe Ortiz will be used differently, but for now, I would expect Ortiz to get very few starts against right-handed pitching. 

I hope to be proved wrong, but I just don't see them benching Frazier and besides, Urias still needs PAs. 

Speaking of Urias, I wonder why they never gave him some experience in the outfield? Seems like if he could play corner outfield ok it would increase his ability to get in the lineup.

[Bemorewins]

14 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

@Bemorewinsthanks for the nice response - go O's.    Briefly as I can:

-no Club will seriously try to acquire Ohtani without the player's tacit blessing.    Being poetical with Adley, he's just a proxy for BAL as good.

-means = #1 farm system.    

-motive = a Club with enough inherent Playoff Probability to rate bolstering

-I believe John Angelos entrusts Mike Elias with this Baseball Ops decision, and the stockpile exists to be used.   

You've said in another post we need to trade for starting pitching, and I agree!    Shohei I believe would cost less to Elias' long haul strategy than Dylan Cease to acquire.     I don't believe guys like Lynn and Giolito move the needle much vs. hoping for 3-4 innings from Bradish or Wells and then bullpen guys should we reach the tournament for a few days or couple weeks.

Whether it is Ohtani, Cease or anyone, process wise its good that early results indicate Elias has his first real team to consider what to do with.    I'm just saying he should be IN on any Good or Great Pitcher if this keeps up.

 

I understand more now and I appreciate the clarification. Some of this I actually agree with. And yes I believe that we are going to need better pitching to win in the postseason. It's one thing to hope and believe in Grayson's potential. And maybe Wells can be a decent option. Maybe? I think Means is a wildcard and can't really be counted on to give us meaningful innings in October. But beyond that... Maybe Braddish? That is not a rotation that I see helping us to win multiple rounds (or to be honest any round) given our competition.

Now I believe that Ohtani would cost less than Cease, but my question would be are there less expensive options that could work? Or at least maybe an option that it would be realistic for us to resign in order to give up real assets/prospects for? I personally like Jesus Luzardo from MIA in terms of being a viable, less expensive option. Is there someone that you like that wouldn't cost us the farm to acquire?

With such a young team, I would hate to have such a short sighted approach. We don't need to limit our window to 1 or 2 years. Not with this many assets.

[Aristotelian]

31 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The point that you raise is a very valid one! We have too many guys and limited spots. And I don't necessarily disagree with your pecking order.

The problem with this though is that you can't keep the guys in the Minors forever. Ortiz is going to be 25 this year. Keeping him in AAA for the entire season or most of it would be irresponsible and mismanagement of an organizational asset.

If he or Westburg/Cowser/Norby are deemed not to be able to contribute this year and help us win, then they need to be moved for pieces that can achieve this objective. I don't think we can afford any longer to be in a holding pattern.

Agreed. I want to see the young guys too. They have earned the chance. What could eliminate the logjam and benefit the team would be some trades. I have to think something is coming and Elias has feelers out on all the pitchers who might be becoming available, but we're going to have to be patient for teams fall out of contention. Hope Ortiz goes 4-4 tonight with a couple spectacular plays to force the issue. 

[Bemorewins]

46 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

People keep bring up the fact that Ortiz turns 25 this year.  So what.   He missed most of a year due to injury and hasn't been held back at all in the minors.   He got hot in AA last year and got promoted to AAA.   He got one month there last year and another month so far this year.   Can we please stop acting like he's been stuck in Purgatory?    Sorry for the religious reference!!!

I didn't bring up his age to insinuate that the O's have been holding him back. I brought it up because I'm concerned how long he will retain value as a prospect. I'm not too aware of 26/27 year old prospects. At some point you get into prime years already having passed and other orgs may not see 6 years of someone aged 26/27 the same as someone aged 25 and under.

[baltfan]

25 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

After Stowers, I have zero faith that the Orioles will start the best player on the roster. Maybe Ortiz will be used differently, but for now, I would expect Ortiz to get very few starts against right-handed pitching. 

I hope to be proved wrong, but I just don't see them benching Frazier and besides, Urias still needs PAs. 

Speaking of Urias, I wonder why they never gave him some experience in the outfield? Seems like if he could play corner outfield ok it would increase his ability to get in the lineup.

Seems they soured on Stowers' defense quickly and the bat, though given limited chances, wasn't enough to justify playing him.   He seemed quite uncomfortable and slow in the outfield.  He runs like you would think Mountcastle would run.  

[Bemorewins]

48 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Agree!

Who should we get?

It depends on who's available at the deadline. I would be interested in acquiring a frontline pitcher to help us in the postseason.