Trading for a rental vs a longer term asset

[wildcard]

If I am Elias I am shopping Stowers, Norby, Frazier and Haskin for pitching.  Not that I have to trade them all.  

I probably will not pull the trigger until late July when I know more about GRod, Irvin, Givens, Tate, Hall,  Charles, Vespi and Means' rehab.    Depending on  how those  go It will tell me if I am looking for a starter or middle relief.

I prefer someone that can help for a few years over a rental but the market will help determine that.  I am willing to take on salary for the right player(s).

Edited June 30, 2023 by wildcard

[Bemorewins]

40 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Why would the Braves be incentivized to trade him? Because they've been winning without him and because there's bad blood between Fried and the team after the last arbitration back and forth. And who cares if he's been injured. If he's healthy when they trade for him that's all would matter. I'm not necessarily advocating trading for Fried (I think he would cost too much), but he's 10 times the pitcher that Rodriguez is. 

PS: He's a FA after the 2024 season, not this season. 

I’m going to be honest, I care and I certainly am very confident that the Orioles care about trading for ANY player that has been injured. Do you have any intel/information regarding the serious of the injury, how the recovery is going, when he will be back?

As I mentioned, I can’t conceive of a team with World Series aspirations trading one of their best starting pitchers over arb issues. If they want him gone that bad they will probably trade him in the offseason. However, I could see the Atalanta Braves using that as a “smokescreen” to get rid of a player they know has or will have some arm issues going forward. They’ve done things like that before. When it comes to the Braves, they are one of those teams when trades are involved (especially of good players) I always ask, is there something wrong with that guy? What do they know?

And yes he is much much better than Eduardo Rodriguez. I’m not married to the idea of acquiring Rodriguez. I would just like to see the O’s trade for a pitcher who can help us in the postseason.

Rodriguez seems to be a risk, Fried would be even more so IMO.

[Bemorewins]

11 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

He's under team control for another year and a half. He has arbitration which he was upset with the Braves about. This past offseason, he was trying to convince the Braves to trade him.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/atlanta-braves/max-fried-21155/

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. 

[Bemorewins]

10 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Snell won the Cy Young and I believe struck out 12 in a game recently.  I'm not sure the Padres will sell, but they're 7.5 games out of the wild card.

Snell is a strikeout pitcher no doubt. But that Cy Young is not very relevant given the length of time that occurred. If he was pitching like that guy, it would be a no doubter. But he has NEVER been that guy since he has been with the Padres.

My issue with Snell is that he doesn’t go deep into games at all. He mostly a 5 inning pitcher. And rarely if ever goes 6 or beyond. 

We already have a staff of “5 and five guys”. We have serious issues in our middle relief. Adding another “5 and dive” guy won’t do much for us with the gaping hole/issue that we have trying to get to the elite back end part of our bullpen.

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Snell is a strikeout pitcher no doubt. But that Cy Young is not very relevant given the length of time that occurred. If he was pitching like that guy, it would be a no doubter. But he has NEVER been that guy since he has been with the Padres.

My issue with Snell is that he doesn’t go deep into games at all. He mostly a 5 inning pitcher. And rarely if ever goes 6 or beyond. 

We already have a staff of “5 and five guys”. We have serious issues in our middle relief. Adding another “5 and dive” guy won’t do much for us with the gaping hole/issue that we have trying to get to the elite back end part of our bullpen.

It would be much easier to strongly upgrade middle relief than find a 7 inning TOR available in trade. 

[Bemorewins]

44 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

I still think our best bet would be to go the Jesus Luzardo route. Find a semi-dissapointing youngish prospect who another organization has soured on a bit (and who we believe in) and trade for him. Why the A's gave up on Luzardo is beyond me. The Pirates did the same thing with Glasnow.  Someone like Brandon Pfaddt might fit that bill if the Oriole's believe in him. 

If Luzardo is available I would trade for him in a heartbeat! 

Now we are probably going to have to give up a return for him. No spare parts players that people want gone to make room for additional prospects or prospects outside of our top 10. But actual real value. I’m okay with that.

I imagine that if the Marlins would trade Luzardo, they would want a major league offensive player (like what they did with the Pablo Lopez trade). They might want Hays or Santander?

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

It would be much easier to strongly upgrade middle relief than find a 7 inning TOR available in trade. 

We really need both. Guys averaging 7 innings through the course of the regular season are very rare these days. Did Verlander even do that last year?

But we can find and acquire a guy averaging 6 which is still very good.

IMO just adding a reliever puts us on track to try to chase the KC Royals model of 2015. The problem with that is they had like what 4/5 elite bullpen arms that season. Additionally, they are the only team in the last 10 years at least to win a World Series doing things that way. 

I may be scarred from the Ravens who kept trying to “zig when others were zagging”…lol

The margin of error for said strategies is VERY THIN.

[maybenxtyr]

41 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If I am Elias I am shopping Stowers, Norby, Frazier and Haskin for pitching.  Not that I have to trade them all.  

I probably will not pull the trigger until late July when I know more about GRod, Irvin, Givens, Tate, Hall,  Charles, Vespi and Means' rehab.    Depending on  how those  go It will tell me if I am looking for a starter or middle relief.

I prefer someone that can help for a few years over a rental but the market will help determine that.  I am willing to take on salary for the right player(s).

3 of the 4 players that you mentioned have no trade value. 

 

They're operating with 3/5ths of a rotation at the moment... Elias will need to get creative in July.

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

It would be much easier to strongly upgrade middle relief than find a 7 inning TOR available in trade. 

I'm not sure it's easier, less expensive sure but easier?

I think finding consistently successful middle relievers isn't that easy.  Seems to me there is a lot of performance variance there.

[OriolesMagic83]

50 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If I am Elias I am shopping Stowers, Norby, Frazier and Haskin for pitching.  Not that I have to trade them all.  

I probably will not pull the trigger until late July when I know more about GRod, Irvin, Givens, Tate, Hall,  Charles, Vespi and Means' rehab.    Depending on  how those  go It will tell me if I am looking for a starter or middle relief.

I prefer someone that can help for a few years over a rental but the market will help determine that.  I am willing to take on salary for the right player(s).

You migt be willing to take on salary, but I bet our owner won't.

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

We really need both. Guys averaging 7 innings through the course of the regular season are very rare these days. Did Verlander even do that last year?

But we can find and acquire a guy averaging 6 which is still very good.

IMO just adding a reliever puts us on track to try to chase the KC Royals model of 2015. The problem with that is they had like what 4/5 elite bullpen arms that season. Additionally, they are the only team in the last 10 years at least to win a World Series doing things that way. 

I may be scarred from the Ravens who kept trying to “zig when others were zagging”…lol

The margin of error for said strategies is VERY THIN.

I will take adding Josh Hader and Gabe Speier and what we have currently and go with it. 

[tntoriole]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not sure it's easier, less expensive sure but easier?

I think finding consistently successful middle relievers isn't that easy.  Seems to me there is a lot of performance variance there.

Give me Hader and Speier .. it will cost us major prospects.. but ultra bullpen vs the Verlander that doesn’t exist anyway 

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I will take adding Josh Hader and Gabe Speier and what we have currently and go with it. 

That’s an approach to take. 

I guess I’m curious why you wouldn’t want a starting pitcher? Even if we don’t acquire one this year, as the way things stand now, we are going to need one next year.

Do you not value starting pitchers that much? Are you concerned about the quality of availability? Are you concerned about acquisition cost? Something else?

[Frobby]

15 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Well what would you call the 11 starts that he has made this season thus far and the excellent results that he produced? Can you find anything in Jordan Montgomery’s recent history/game logs that is similar or better? Or I will do you one better, is there any other pitcher that we have or can acquire that has done anything near that?

1.  What do you mean by “recent?”  Are you limiting thst to 2023?  If not, then Dylan Cease was about as good or better all of last year than ERod was in 11 starts this year.  And, he had a 14-game stretch with an 0.66 ERA.

2.  I’m just not very inclined to believe that a pitcher who has a career 4.02 ERA, who happened to get off to a very good start this year but won’t have pitched for about two months by the time he gets back from his injury, is likely to be anything better than his career average when he returns.   This isn’t a case of catching a guy when he’s in a groove, because the injury has disrupted his groove and there’s zero assurance that he’ll come back as if nothing has happened and just continue to pitch way better than his career numbers.  

Now, all that is not to say that I’d oppose a trade for ERod. It would depend what we’d have to give up.  But I don’t see him getting a “rent-an-ace” return.   More like a “rent-a-2/3 starter” return.  
 

[HakunaSakata]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

If Luzardo is available I would trade for him in a heartbeat! 

Now we are probably going to have to give up a return for him. No spare parts players that people want gone to make room for additional prospects or prospects outside of our top 10. But actual real value. I’m okay with that.

I imagine that if the Marlins would trade Luzardo, they would want a major league offensive player (like what they did with the Pablo Lopez trade). They might want Hays or Santander?

You completely missed the point of my post. We need to find the next Luzardo, not the actual Luzardo. The Marlins were able to get him for pennies on the dollar. Same with Rays when they acquired Glasnow. Buy low / sell high, not the opposite.