Does Grey Rod looking like an ace and the potential of Means coming back diminish the pressure for another starter?

[NCRaven]

I think Wells to the pen is the way to go.  Already past his highest innings total.  Has late inning relief experience.  That would be my plan.

[Uli2001]

I don't see starter as a glaring need. The Orioles SP have been doing well. Bullpen is a glaring need.

[oriole]

9 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Rodriguez is not going to the bullpen. He'd only have to make 8-9 more starts and he's only thrown 62.33 big-league innings. We'll see what Wells' condition is today.

His career high is 103IP and he’s just now passed that for 2023. I’m not saying move him to the bullpen today, but it seems pretty clear that pushing him way past that opens the O’s up to overworking him, especially if there’s a deep playoff run. 

[LA2]

6 hours ago, oriole said:

His career high is 103IP and he’s just now passed that for 2023. I’m not saying move him to the bullpen today, but it seems pretty clear that pushing him way past that opens the O’s up to overworking him, especially if there’s a deep playoff run. 

I'm not counting the minor-league innings b/c they were low stress relatively speaking--but I'm not denying that it's fair to count them.

I'm not worried about how many starts per se he has left in the tank. More concerned about whether we have a 5-inning pitcher still or was last night a sign of things to come. I think the overwork concern arises if Hyde wants 6+ to 7 innings each time out on the mound. Just my opinion.

Edited July 30, 2023 by LA2

[Os4days]

Well Texas now has their game one starter while we sit on our hands. 

[BRobinsonfan]

2 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

Playoff baseball is tournament ball. It’s a different animal than the regular season. It’s at the end of the long season, when everyone is running on fumes and letting it rip the best they can. The pressure of every pitch is enormous. The heart beats a bit faster. There is no substitute for playoff experience and the confidence that comes from having been there. 

I rank "playoff experience" right up there with "veteranisity" and "chemistry."  I suppose there's some usefulness to them but they seem very overrated and impossible to quantify.  The rules in the post season are still the same.  You still win by scoring more runs than the other team.  Playoff games are just high leverage games and by the time these guys make it that far they've played in plenty of high leverage games from college to the minors to a 162 game season to get to the playoffs.  I'm sure there's more excitement and pressure, but that comes with the territory.  I just don't understand what wisdom the players with playoff experience are imparting to the newbies.  "Stay loose?"  "Play the game one out at a time."  "Shake it off? (after a botched play). "Keep your head in the game?"    

I realize this may come off as snarky but that's not my intent.  I acknowledge that there's a value to experience.  I just sometimes think these terms get overused and their importance inflated because they really are so hard to quantify and actually measure.  

Edited July 29, 2023 by BRobinsonfan

[Jammer7]

43 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

I rank "playoff experience" right up there with "veteranisity" and "chemistry."  I suppose there's some usefulness to them but they seem very overrated and impossible to quantify.  The rules in the post season are still the same.  You still win by scoring more runs than the other team.  Playoff games are just high leverage games and by the time these guys make it that far they've played in plenty of high leverage games from college to the minors to a 162 game season to get to the playoffs.  I'm sure there's more excitement and pressure, but that comes with the territory.  I just don't understand what wisdom the players with playoff experience are imparting to the newbies.  "Stay loose?"  "Play the game one out at a time."  "Shake it off? (after a botched play). "Keep your head in the game?"    

I realize this may come off as snarky but that's not my intent.  I acknowledge that there's a value to experience.  I just sometimes think these terms get overused and their importance inflated because they really are so hard to quantify and actually measure.  

Ok. No offense taken. GM’s, managers and veteran players, who have won playoff series and World Series games talk about it and say it exists. Anyone who has performed at a very high level, in any profession, can tell you that having been there before helps on some level, more so for some than others. Keith Law and other journalists have written that playoff experience does not matter. To each their own, I guess. 

No one can prove it either way. I get the argument that you cannot quantify it easily. Elias and Hyde speak about the chemistry and the veterans they added this off-season and credit them with keeping the team from getting too high or low. It exists to them, and they constructed this team. On talent alone, the Padres and Mets should be very good major league teams, and yet they are terrible team loaded with big talent. Chemistry often matters.

My point, in my head anyway, about a Verlander or Scherzer did not rest on solely their playoff experience. Their total body of work, their presence, their overall experience, along with playoff/big game experience was what I had in mind. I neglected to write that, though. And, Scherzer is a Ranger now. lol

I stand by my comments regarding the playoffs and tournament play being vastly different than a 162 game season. I don’t think anyone can say that important college games or any other game at any lower level is the same as an MLB playoff or World Series game.

[EddeeEddee]

Wells didn't even go three innings today, so clearly there's a need for another starter, whether it's Irvin, Means or someone else.  This doesn't mean Wells is done for the season, but he needs time in the bullpen or just 2-3 inning starts for awhile.  With Irvin also pitching today it will be interesting to see who starts 5 games from now.  I suspect the O's will trade for an innings eater rather than a star pitcher, but we shall see.

[bpilktree]

The Orioles will trade for another starter I am almost 100% sure of that just as an innings concern.  If that starter is good enough for the fan base is a different story.  Just thinking who is the best starter the Orioles have traded for in the last 30 years?  

[Aglets]

35 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

The Orioles will trade for another starter I am almost 100% sure of that just as an innings concern.  If that starter is good enough for the fan base is a different story.  Just thinking who is the best starter the Orioles have traded for in the last 30 years?  

Kevin Millwood ftw.

[bpilktree]

5 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Kevin Millwood ftw.

Mill wood was at end of career I think David Wells probably was better at the time of trade.  There not lot of choices though.  Scott Erickson, Bud Norris 

[Jagwar]

It's all about strengthening the pitching staff. If that means putting a starter in the bullpen so be it. 

[Three Run Homer]

I think GRod's improvement reduces the need to trade for a starter who is controllable beyond this year.  But who knows what you will get with Means this year, Wells looks shaky now, and Gibson is a decent back-end innings eater who you probably don't want to have to start in the playoffs.   So I think they still need to get at least one quality rental like EdRod or Montgomery.  

[BRobinsonfan]

2 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

Ok. No offense taken. GM’s, managers and veteran players, who have won playoff series and World Series games talk about it and say it exists. Anyone who has performed at a very high level, in any profession, can tell you that having been there before helps on some level, more so for some than others. Keith Law and other journalists have written that playoff experience does not matter. To each their own, I guess. 

No one can prove it either way. I get the argument that you cannot quantify it easily. Elias and Hyde speak about the chemistry and the veterans they added this off-season and credit them with keeping the team from getting too high or low. It exists to them, and they constructed this team. On talent alone, the Padres and Mets should be very good major league teams, and yet they are terrible team loaded with big talent. Chemistry often matters.

My point, in my head anyway, about a Verlander or Scherzer did not rest on solely their playoff experience. Their total body of work, their presence, their overall experience, along with playoff/big game experience was what I had in mind. I neglected to write that, though. And, Scherzer is a Ranger now. lol

I stand by my comments regarding the playoffs and tournament play being vastly different than a 162 game season. I don’t think anyone can say that important college games or any other game at any lower level is the same as an MLB playoff or World Series game.

Here's a study by Keith Law showing that experience doesn't matter for much.  

http://www.espn.com/mlb/playoffs2000/2000/1006/803589.html

[Roy Firestone]

5 hours ago, Os4days said:

Well Texas now has their game one starter while we sit on our hands. 

Were not looking for a Game 1 starter...we couldn't give up what it takes to get one...we need relief...and maybe a hope that Means can give us something decent...