Angelos wanted two year lease extension

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, SemperFi said:

The Orioles are not relocating for four main reasons:

-expansion is coming and owners will maximize entry fees not cut into them by allowing the Orioles to relocate

-MLB has made it clear they want the Orioles in Baltimore

-the Angelos family is a pariah in MLB circles, MLB will do them no favors especially after offering to "open the books" one of MLB's greatest fears.  MASN litigation, PA and unions.........  

-MLB's most fervent desire for the franchise is that the  PA plays out, the Angelos family sells and disappears.  Allowing them to relocate likely means continued Angelos ownership.

-most importantly the Orioles debt is almost certainly held by MLB which means MLB controls the Orioles destiny.  MLB holds varying levels of debt for all but two franchises, averaging $125m per team-if JA were to have his debt or a portion of it called he would be in a world of hurt. 

 

Maybe piling on here, but the fact that posts about the Orioles moving keep popping up suggests that it might be useful.

First, one of the pillars of MLB's business strategy is enabling teams to extract as much money as possible from local governments to build new stadiums and to maintain and renovate aging ones.  As one piece of that strategy, MLB has maintained that a team canl succeed anywhere if it has an appealing ballpark. That's why Oakland and Tampa Bay have been singled out and will be permitted to move if they want: MLB attributes their problems to their terrible ball parks. Unless and until Camden Yards falls into serious disrepair, the owners will not approve of the team moving. even if there's an appealing opportunity. (Nashville, by the way, is not available.) 

The statement that MLB wants the Angeloses to sell the team is no doubt true, but I think it's a little more complicated than that. It's virtually certain that John/Lou will sell after their father dies and they inherit control of the team. But the owners had a chance to force a sale when Peter Angelos signed a power of attorney in favor of his wife, transferring control of the team to her. The owners could have voted not to approve that transfer, forcing a sale of the team and creating an obligation for Peter to pay probably hundreds of millions of dollars in capital gains taxes.

There are three logical possibilities. There are three possibilities. Number one: MLB's owners have a generous spirit toward the Angeloses and are willing to forgive and forget, and in that spirit they will allow John/Lou own the team after Peter dies. Number two: When they learned of the power of attorney, the owners decided to be nice guys and they approved of control of the team passing to Georgia Angelos, but they have left open the approval of control passing to John/Lou when Peter dies.  Number three: there's a deal under which the Angeloses are permitted to retain ownership while Peter is alive but must sell the team after Peter's death, allowing the Angeloses to avoid capital gains taxes  while enabling MLB to get rid of the Angeloses when the inevitable happens.

I know which one makes the most sense to me, and I can't think of any other explanations for what's happened.

Edited August 11, 2023 by spiritof66

[Can_of_corn]

4- The owners are mostly concerned with maintaining the status quo and only get involved in the business of other owner's handing of their team in extreme cases.

[Going Underground]

2 hours ago, SemperFi said:

The Orioles are not relocating for four main reasons:

-expansion is coming and owners will maximize entry fees not cut into them by allowing the Orioles to relocate

-MLB has made it clear they want the Orioles in Baltimore

-the Angelos family is a pariah in MLB circles, MLB will do them no favors especially after offering to "open the books" one of MLB's greatest fears.  MASN litigation, PA and unions.........  

-MLB's most fervent desire for the franchise is that the  PA plays out, the Angelos family sells and disappears.  Allowing them to relocate likely means continued Angelos ownership.

-most importantly the Orioles debt is almost certainly held by MLB which means MLB controls the Orioles destiny.  MLB holds varying levels of debt for all but two franchises, averaging $125m per team-if JA were to have his debt or a portion of it called he would be in a world of hurt. 

 

I don't think the Orioles are going anywhere but  I just don't trust John Angelos. Move and make the owner's sue and then tie it  up in court like the MASN conflict.  Until he signs on the dotted line,don't trust him.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Going Underground said:

I don't think the Orioles are going anywhere but  I just don't trust John Angelos. Move and make the owner's sue and then tie it  up in court like the MASN conflict.  Until he signs on the dotted line,don't trust him.

My guess is that the language is super clear on the issue and it would be about impossible to tie up in the courts.  Otherwise someone would have tried it by now.

 

[Going Underground]

The Baltimore press has gotten much more critical of John lately.

 

 

[Going Underground]

 

 

The mystery that has hung over Baltimore like a dark cloud for most of this year is coming into sharper focus. The reason the Orioles have not signed a long-term lease at Camden Yards is that Angelos, the managing partner and CEO of the team, wants a bigger bag.

Apparently the $600 million in public bonds the franchise would get once it signs a new lease is not enough. Angelos wants to expand his empire beyond the bounds of the ballpark.

John Angelos sought additional $300 million, use of parking lots for development in lease stalemate

Reporting from The Banner’s staff has found a number of mind-numbing revelations. Angelos has asked for $300 million in additional public funds and looked into how he can acquire development rights on adjacent properties in addition to a long-term lease, which he insists on calling a “partnership.” Even though these development rights would line his own pockets, he doesn’t seem to want to pay for them. Someone — it remains unclear who, exactly — commissioned surveys to see if a “revitalization” project dubbed “Camden Crossing” would be appetizing to neighborhoods around the ballpark, publicly airing the concept of an expensive public project before bothering to show anyone a blueprint.

[elextrano8]

11 hours ago, Gurgi said:

I pray some story comes out about Angelos doing something bad like harassing female employees or something.  Something that will build and build till he has to sell .

this is a pretty horrific take, no matter what you think of the guy

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

The Baltimore press has gotten much more critical of John lately.

 

 

The “old guard” is gone in terms of local reporting. I think that helps.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The “old guard” is gone in terms of local reporting. I think that helps.

I think the fact that the National media has stated to pay attention if pretty much forcing the local folks to step up their game.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think the fact that the National media has stated to pay attention if pretty much forcing the local folks to step up their game.

The Os being a real team on the field again definitely helps.

[SemperFi]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

Maybe piling on here, but the fact that posts about the Orioles moving keep popping up suggests that it might be useful.

First, one of the pillars of MLB's business strategy is enabling teams to extract as much money as possible from local governments to build new stadiums and to maintain and renovate aging ones.  As one piece of that strategy, MLB has maintained that a team canl succeed anywhere if it has an appealing ballpark. That's why Oakland and Tampa Bay have been singled out and will be permitted to move if they want: MLB attributes their problems to their terrible ball parks. Unless and until Camden Yards falls into serious disrepair, the owners will not approve of the team moving. even if there's an appealing opportunity. (Nashville, by the way, is not available.) 

The statement that MLB wants the Angeloses to sell the team is no doubt true, but I think it's a little more complicated than that. It's virtually certain that John/Lou will sell after their father dies and they inherit control of the team. But the owners had a chance to force a sale when Peter Angelos signed a power of attorney in favor of his wife, transferring control of the team to her. The owners could have voted not to approve that transfer, forcing a sale of the team and creating an obligation for Peter to pay probably hundreds of millions of dollars in capital gains taxes.

There are three logical possibilities. There are three possibilities. Number one: MLB's owners have a generous spirit toward the Angeloses and are willing to forgive and forget, and in that spirit they will allow John/Lou own the team after Peter dies. Number two: When they learned of the power of attorney, the owners decided to be nice guys and they approved of control of the team passing to Georgia Angelos, but they have left open the approval of control passing to John/Lou when Peter dies.  Number three: there's a deal under which the Angeloses are permitted to retain ownership while Peter is alive but must sell the team after Peter's death, allowing the Angeloses to avoid capital gains taxes  while enabling MLB to get rid of the Angeloses when the inevitable happens.

I know which one makes the most sense to me, and I can't think of any other explanations for what's happened.

We both know it's number three and JA is doing all he can to maximize the value of the franchise for sale once the inevitable happens.  

[Going Underground]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The Os being a real team on the field again definitely helps.

I thought the Banner would be a little different then they are but they do have many Baltimore Sun reporters.

[Frobby]

I really hope the State doesn’t cave.  The Orioles aren’t going anywhere and the State has already been extemely generous.  

[tntoriole]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I really hope the State doesn’t cave.  The Orioles aren’t going anywhere and the State has already been extemely generous.  

I agree… the state has no reason to further increase its financial support of the Angelos family. 

[drjohnnyfever1]

1 hour ago, TradeAngelos said:

Yeah Foxboro is in the middle of f'ing nowhere. Lots of land to redevelop. Where is this vast land west of Harborplace you speak of? And this vast land to the east that the Ravens interests can be "transferred" to? LOL. 

Didn't say anything about "vast" land available here.  That's your assessment of Foxboro and you're not wrong.  I'm merely commenting on the entertainment area concept.  The Harbor is going to be redeveloped.  There has been talk in the recent past about a new or improved Convention Center.  Seems likely, or more profitable - at least, that both teams would want to tie into that area and connect to that somehow.  And you've amplified the point, by pointing out the lack of space near the two stadiums.  Only the A-C parking lots are "common" area to both teams.  So go ahead and cram it in there, I guess, but that requires an ample parking garage in that space too...  I guess the bigger point is that the teams are going to have to come to some agreement before anything happens with additional funding to JA. 

If the Harbor is already on the fast track to get going (which it seems is the case), and there's a chance of the Convention Center being improved, there is certainly an access route available that would pass thru or next to the Hyatt between the office building on the corner of Pratt and Light running parallel to Conway.  The Horseshoe is farther from Oriole Park than the Harbor is, so connecting all of them would be an achievement.  There would be no need to do anything with the parking for the Ravens then either. 

If they go thru with figuring out development closer to the stadiums, whatever they do would have to include accommodating the Ravens parking.  By transferred east, I mean to where Lot H is, perhaps.  Plenty of room there for a large garage or at least enough to accommodate the loss of Lots A-C.  There's no space West of the stadiums unless there are plans to buy out businesses and/or private owners.