What do you want to see from John Means tonight?

[Aristotelian]

16 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

I missed Means with the O's the first couple years. I know he had a lot of success and obviously the no hitter.

Who would be a comp for means when he's at his best?

Maybe Eduardo Rodriguez? Below average velocity but plus FB command and plus-plus changeup to keep RHB off balance and get the occasional K.

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Mark Buehrle.

If he missed young Means I am guessing Buehrle was ahead of his time. Good comp though. 

[Pickles]

9 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

Nice. Buehrle certainly had some great years.

Means won't have the overall career because of durability, they are very similar pitchers at their peaks.

[Just Regular]

Could the Decision Science of Rest prescribe a nice quiet AirBNB out on Cape Cod for Kyle Gibson until next Friday?

Don't make him fly to the West Coast and back!

(I know IRL Gibby in Arizona already.)

Encouraging Means night - seems about as successful a dress rehearsal as there's going to be.

I'm with @banks703Anaheim Wednesday looks like a nicer spot than what comes after it.     It'd also put him in the Cardinals series, which might be hometown fun for him, and avoid Rays, which seems prudent until we see how the current velo and stuff plays against softer competition.

[Jim'sKid26]

FB velocity is worrisome. He's going to have to use it to set up the CH and SL. Im not sure he gets any swing and miss with the FB at the MLB level. CH was his most effective pitch tonight. When he doesn't have the CH he is going to get rocked. Encouraging outing. 

[Frobby]

Means has been getting good results, though his FB velocity is not quite where it was pre-TJ.   Here’s where I trust Elias & co. to judge whether what’s working in AAA will work in the majors.  I’ll be interested to see how they handle this.  

[Os4days]

That velocity is a little concerning because usually after tommy john surgery, in many cases a player actually will actually throw harder especially if rehab is done right … in my opinion. 

[Hallas]

So, Means' best WAR season came in 2019 when he had about the same velocity he had today.  His peak velocity today was 92.9, which is definitely on the low side.  But he has been successful with this velocity in the past.  It's concerning because the last version of Means had about 1.5 mph more on his fastball, but he can succeed with this.  It's really a matter of command at the major league level at this point.  Tough to gauge against AAA batters.  But it was promising nonetheless.

 

I'm not really sure if he is going to be able to rear back for an extra couple ticks in the bullpen, considering he's coming off TJ and he never really reared back during this start.  Maybe?  If he can then he's going to definitely be a solid arm.  If not?  Tough to say.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Hallas

[banks703]

6 hours ago, Hallas said:

So, Means' best WAR season came in 2019 when he had about the same velocity he had today.  His peak velocity today was 92.9, which is definitely on the low side.  But he has been successful with this velocity in the past.  It's concerning because the last version of Means had about 1.5 mph more on his fastball, but he can succeed with this.  It's really a matter of command at the major league level at this point. 

This is where I am. He has shown in the past that he doesn’t need the extra 1-2 mph to be successful. It’s nice, sure. If given the choice I would take the added velo but he has shown he can get ML hitters out at this velo.

I expect that the velo will increase with strength and length but I am just not worried about it right now.

Gibson is setting the bar real low these last 15 or so starts. Can Means beat a 6.28 ER? Because that’s the bar Gibson has set over his last 15 starts. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by banks703

[wildcard]

Means deserves a rotation spot.   Irvin and Flaherty need to pitch well in their next start to hold their spot.   I could say the same about Gibson but Hyde respects what Gibson as done for the team.   An extra starter might get Gibson pulled from his starts earlier though.

Means will not be added to the major league roster for  6  or 7 days.

Edited September 1, 2023 by wildcard

[Nightbird]

I'm totally pleased by Means progress. His velo will probably climb slowly through the next starts. I guess the O's will give him at least one, hopefully two more AAA starts; don't rush the process, there is no need! IMO, we want him (if thinks go well) for the playoffs, maybe have one or two pre-playoff starts or long reliefs in MLB; that should be the goal. With the current stretch of offdays, we can easyly go back to a 5 man rotation to skip Gibsons next start. Don't rush it 'cause you are frightened with our lead down to 1.5 games; i have absolute trust that we will holdoff Tampa without messing around with Means ...

[waroriole]

https://x.com/milb/status/1697411605464539377?s=46&t=C6zA1JBI_jkO96Ky552lTw
 

Some really good changeups in here. It’s weird that people are complaining about his velocity. He hasn’t pitched competitively in 16 months before these 4 starts. Nobody comes out of TJ surgery 100% restored immediately. If he’s in the low 90s, that will bode well for next year. And low 90s Means is still one of our best pitchers. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

https://x.com/milb/status/1697411605464539377?s=46&t=C6zA1JBI_jkO96Ky552lTw
 

Some really good changeups in here. It’s weird that people are complaining about his velocity. He hasn’t pitched competitively in 16 months before these 4 starts. Nobody comes out of TJ surgery 100% restored immediately. If he’s in the low 90s, that will bode well for next year. And low 90s Means is still one of our best pitchers. 

I don’t think it’s so much a complaint but more of the idea that if the velo is low, we can’t just assume a rotation spot for him and all will be good.

Im fine with his progress but I’m not in a hurry for him to be in the majors either. I’m not sure I would count on him being any better than anyone already up here, at least anyone in the rotation.

Now, if you feel you want him in the rotation over Irvin and you like Irvin in the pen more, that’s fine with me but I’m not expecting results that are way better…at least not as of today. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Sports Guy

[waroriole]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think it’s so much a complaint but more of the idea that if the velo is low, we can’t just assume a rotation spot for him and all will be good.

Im fine with his progress but I’m not in a hurry for him to be in the majors either. I’m not sure I would count on him being any better than anyone already up here.

I’m surprised you said that. Low 90s is basically where he’s always sat. He’s not that far off his previous velocity. Plus, velocity isn’t what made him good. It’s the change up and command. The only pitchers I think could be better than him now are Bradish, Grayson, and Kremer. That includes the bullpen too. 
 

Irvin, Flaherty, and Gibson have done nothing to earn rotation spots. 

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I’m surprised you said that. Low 90s is basically where he’s always sat. He’s not that far off his previous velocity. Plus, velocity isn’t what made him good. It’s the change up and command. The only pitchers I think could be better than him now are Bradish, Grayson, and Kremer. That includes the bullpen too. 
 

Irvin, Flaherty, and Gibson have done nothing to earn rotation spots. 

No, he was consistently 92-94 and would touch 95 in 2020-2022. His velo spiked up after 2019. We saw an increase in his K rate and he was missing way more bats.

That increased his ceiling.

It was pointed out that his best WAR was with the lower velo and while that may be true, that was for one year. The increase in velo has allowed him a better K rate, more missed bats and a better spread on his changeup allows him a better margin for error and a higher upside.

Also, when coming back from an injury and not pitching for a while, command could be a bit of an issue and with the velo down, the command has to basically be perfect. That’s a lot to ask for someone who hasn’t faced ML hitters in 16ish months and you are doing it at a time when all the pressure is on.

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Sports Guy