Adam Frazier should not play in the field

[Brian88]

 

[webbrick2010]

It saddens me that we are going to the playoffs with Hicks and Frazier on the roster when we have better players available. I suspect there will be a thread just like this lamenting a playoff loss. Do not understand Elias not going all in on this team, not at the trade deadline and not with the playoff roster. 

[jdwilde1]

28 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

It saddens me that we are going to the playoffs with Hicks and Frazier on the roster when we have better players available. I suspect there will be a thread just like this lamenting a playoff loss. Do not understand Elias not going all in on this team, not at the trade deadline and not with the playoff roster. 

Hicks and Frazier should not be lumped together, but I don’t see how either of them should be left off the playoff roster.  Hicks has been outstanding with the O’s.  In just over 1/3 of a full season (58 games 211 PAs) he has hit .293/.389/.453/.842 witch is good for a OPS+ of 135.  Frazier hasn’t been great, but he’s still posted a 1.7 rWAR, has some position flexibility, and probably has the best contact skills on the team. I get not wanting Frazier to start so much and I also understand that the O’s may have been better off with Joey Ortiz, but its tough to argue with the O’s success.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by jdwilde1

[wildcard]

The O's don't win too many when scoring 2 runs.  

Perez hits a guy, walks one, a  base  then Webb walks in the winning run.  Should Frazier have caught the bloop.  Probably.  He got to the ball.   But the loss was not his fault.  He had plenty of help.

Game 14 of 17 in a row in late Sept.    Pen is cooked.   Irvin and Baker spending 15 days in the minors before they can be recalled.

Edited September 22, 2023 by wildcard

[Tony-OH]

I rewatched the Frazier non-catch in the 8th and whether it was Frazier or Hicks, that ball has to be caught. Frazier got there but looked to be too worried about turning and throwing home with the runner on 3rd than making the catch and it bounced off his glove. I'm sorry, but that's an error in my book at the major league level so these new fangled scorers and think everything is a hard play can suck an egg.

That hit had a .100 xBA so it needs to be caught.

Now let's talk Hicks on that play. Hicks took off and looked to be sprinting, but started to slow up as it looked like Frazier was camping under it. According to Ruiz he had to go 113 feet to get the ball and Frazier had to go 104, so it explains why Frazier got there first.

I did a little research and honestly, it's fairly rare for an outfielder to run 114 feet to make a catch and while I was unable to find a hit or out at the same distance with the 5.1 time in air, I did find one that was 114 feet with 5.5 seconds in the air and it had a 35% catch probability. Now I didn't look at the direction but it's fair to say that Hicks had a low probability to make that catch with the distance he had to cover, so that was definitely the second baseman's ball.

Regardless, the run didn't matter since the Orioles weren't able to get any runs in the top of the 9th, but yes, I do think Westburg makes that play because he's much faster than Frazier and has shown a good ability to make pop up catches. 

[Rbiggs2525]

As and former outfielder that is Hicks ball. I’m sure if you got statcast for the sprint speed of the Baltimore chop and that fly ball you can tell he wasn’t busting it. I actually really like Hicks but you see the veteran 90 percent effort a lot with him in the field. 

[PeteCanes]

Westburg is a better player at bat and in the field.  I don’t know what else to say about it.  He should play almost every day.  
 

edit.  Glad Frazier is on the team, he plays the role player position well

Edited September 22, 2023 by PeteCanes

[AdamK]

Even if Hicks doesn't catch it outright, felt like he had the vector to make a play on advancing runners where Frazier definitely would not have. 

Tough luck and can't replay it, but it looked like Hicks had to slow it up because he didn't call it off or Frazier kept coming.

[Otter]

I certainly don't want to get into another Frazier/Westburg debate that's already been beaten to death, but I also think it's extremely clear that Westburg is the superior defender either judging by stats or the eye test.  It's obvious that Hyde loves Frazier's clutchiness/veteranosity, and as the season winds down he seems to be playing him more.  But what seems most confusing to me is why Hyde doesn't replace Frazier for defense late in games with Urias or Westburg....I'd also imagine Mateo could play a much better 2B as well.  

[Number5]

2 minutes ago, Otter said:

But what seems most confusing to me is why Hyde doesn't replace Frazier for defense late in games with Urias or Westburg....I'd also imagine Mateo could play a much better 2B as well.  

We weren't ahead at the time, so I don't know that a defensive replacement was in order.

[tntoriole]

14 minutes ago, Otter said:

I certainly don't want to get into another Frazier/Westburg debate that's already been beaten to death, but I also think it's extremely clear that Westburg is the superior defender either judging by stats or the eye test.  It's obvious that Hyde loves Frazier's clutchiness/veteranosity, and as the season winds down he seems to be playing him more.  But what seems most confusing to me is why Hyde doesn't replace Frazier for defense late in games with Urias or Westburg....I'd also imagine Mateo could play a much better 2B as well.  

That Urias guy that threw the ball away in a crucial moment the other day?  That guy? 

[tntoriole]

I agree… Adam made an error.   

As to whether it deserves yet another new thread again rehashing the decisions made about Adam Frazier, i really doubt it.  Lol

Why are there not multiple Ramon Urias threads after his egregious throwing errors including  the other night?  Was he not “blocking” Westburg this season too? 
 

It’s just baseball.. players are quite imperfect as we know.  

Given the buildup and expected fantasies though on this board about Westburg, I will obviously look forward very much to him being an outstanding second baseman for us in 2024 and for years to come.

I do hope no one remembers 2023 mainly as the year Elias unnecessarily signed that guy Frazier who blocked Jordan Westburg and Joey Ortiz and Connor Norby.   Oh, and the year we won the WS.  

 

[Otter]

2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

That Urias guy that threw the ball away in a crucial moment the other day?  That guy? 

First, I wasn't referring to just this one Frazier play...but just in general that it makes sense to replace him with a better defender late in close games.  And second, Urias makes one bad throw and that makes him a bad defender?  Urias won a gold glove and is an outstanding defender at multiple positions.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

 

That hit had a .100 xBA so it needs to be caught.

Now let's talk Hicks on that play. Hicks took off and looked to be sprinting, but started to slow up as it looked like Frazier was camping under it. According to Ruiz he had to go 113 feet to get the ball and Frazier had to go 104, so it explains why Frazier got there first.

I did a little research and honestly, it's fairly rare for an outfielder to run 114 feet to make a catch and while I was unable to find a hit or out at the same distance with the 5.1 time in air, I did find one that was 114 feet with 5.5 seconds in the air and it had a 35% catch probability. Now I didn't look at the direction but it's fair to say that Hicks had a low probability to make that catch with the distance he had to cover, so that was definitely the second baseman's ball.

I appreciate the research information.  Still, you’ve played enough baseball to know that it’s easier to run and track a ball running sideways and in than it is to catch one running way into the outfield than the infield.   Also, and this was my big gripe, running in you have a shot to make a strong throw home.  Frazier had no shot to make any kind of decent throw with his momentum going the opposite direction.   

And forget the .100 xBA, since as you know, xBA only looks at EV and launch angle, and not where the ball was hit on the field.   Your catch probability research is better.  I wish though that Statcast would make this data more available on a play-by-play basis and maybe publish a chart that shows that on average, if the distance is X and the hang time is Y, then the catch probability is Z.   That shouldn’t be hard to do.
 

[tntoriole]

10 minutes ago, Otter said:

First, I wasn't referring to just this one Frazier play...but just in general that it makes sense to replace him with a better defender late in close games.  And second, Urias makes one bad throw and that makes him a bad defender?  Urias won a gold glove and is an outstanding defender at multiple positions.

Yes like the strong opinions about Frazier have not been shared previously lol. 

Urias won the Gold Glove last year ..likely not be winning it this year. And he has made more errors than one this season but none in such a critical moment. 

Not to worry, 2023 will soon enough pass and Adam won’t be the issue in 2024 I suspect.