Can We Talk About Next Year Now?

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Okay.

Do we know for a fact that he wasn't allowed to spend enough for a multi-year deal, or is it possible that Elias didn't think a multi-year deal for any of the starters on the market weren't worth what they were asking?  Like, I wouldn't have wanted Gibson for a multi-year deal at a lower annual salary, for example.  

We do know JA's thoughts on extensions.  That doesn't mean extensions won't get done.  But, like you, I have my doubts.

So the evidence that JA is being a tightwad aren't really that concrete, despite what we'd all like to believe.  Trust me, I don't like him either, but before @Tony-OH labels me a JA  apologist, I just want to deal with facts.  There's a quote from Giants/Angels trade a few years ago where Elias said that ownership wasn't interested in doing a deal like that (yet ownership has spent practically every dollar of draft pools (cue @Can_of_corn) and spent money in the Dominican programs for guys like Basallo) but if we're being honest -and you're an honest guy, SG- that's not much to go on.

I agree that Elias isn't going to spend a lot in free agency based off where he's come from.  I would not be surprised if John Angelos (and again, this is speculation) wanted to know Elias' thoughts on spending in free agency during the interview process and made the hire partially based on that.  That is to say that I believe these two are in simpatico when it comes to their thoughts and philosophies on spending in free agency.

All in all, what you've listed isn't hard evidence.  A quote here, a quote there.  To borrow a phrase, it's not about what you know, it's about what you can prove.  

So while I think (just like you do!) that John Angelos doesn't want to spend big bucks in free agency and I don't think Elias does either, I'll wait until there's a hard hitting investigative article that comes out that'll confirm all this before crucifying one or the other or both.

 

 

I don’t disagree but you are also basically giving him the benefit of the doubt and he doesn’t deserve that at all. He hasn’t come close to earning that.

He has done some great things as an owner..so did his dad but his priorities are more with making money than making this the best team possible and that 100% hinders the guy trying to build the team.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think Elias is ready to give up prospects yet.  For whatever reason.

 

 

I think the organization is at the point where it's a necessity to trade prospects or established veterans to fill in holes (mainly pitching) on the roster. Are they supposed to let Ortiz, Cowser and Kjerstad among others spend another year at Norfolk?  Then there's Holliday and Mayo the list goes on and on.

Now is the time to make some moves with this glut of prospects.

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think Elias is ready to give up prospects yet.  For whatever reason.

 

 

Hopefully that changes this offseason and we can make at least one meaningful FA addition.

[sportsfan8703]

Sign Snell. Need lefties in OPACY for playoffs with the wall. Go with a 6 man rotation to keep everyone fresh and healthy. 

Snell, Bradish, Means, Grayson, Irvin, Kremer

It’s time to start building for the playoffs and using the wall.  Wells is our closer. Evaluate the pen at the deadline. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t disagree but you are also basically giving him the benefit of the doubt and he doesn’t deserve that at all. He hasn’t come close to earning that.

He has done some great things as an owner..so did his dad but his priorities are more with making money than making this the best team possible and that 100% hinders the guy trying to build the team.

Well, being the strong capitalist, individualist, rugged, alpha male that you are, I am always surprised that you're upset with anyone wanting to make money.  That seems antithetical to your beliefs.

John Angelos is an idiot, but he should have the sense to know that the more the Orioles win, the more money he stands to make.  

[Bahama O's Fan]

Last offseason, I thought we were a good team, but were missing two main components to be a great team. Obviously, record wise, we looked like a great team. Here in the postseason, we saw a flop. The two things that I said last offseason are still true now. We need a bat that every pitcher fears. We have no one in the lineup like that, the person you pitch around. We also need a a top starting pitcher. Now, we need a closer too. Add those three things and we can contend in the playoffs. 

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I think the organization is at the point where it's a necessity to trade prospects or established veterans to fill in holes (mainly pitching) on the roster. Are they supposed to let Ortiz, Cowser and Kjerstad among others spend another year at Norfolk?  Then there's Holliday and Mayo the list goes on and on.

Now is the time to make some moves with this glut of prospects.

If now is the time to make some moves, it was also the time at the trade deadline.

 

[Spy Fox]

20 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think Elias is ready to give up prospects yet.  For whatever reason.

9 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I think the organization is at the point where it's a necessity to trade prospects or established veterans to fill in holes (mainly pitching) on the roster. Are they supposed to let Ortiz, Cowser and Kjerstad among others spend another year at Norfolk?  Then there's Holliday and Mayo the list goes on and on.

Now is the time to make some moves with this glut of prospects.

Yeah, we're getting to the point where there's a real roster math problem if Elias doesn't make any prospect for big leaguer trades. 

Plus, there's the fact that the FA market this winter is pretty weak. 

Whatever level of splash we see, I think the splashier moves this offseason will probably be trades rather than FA signings. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Spy Fox

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, being the strong capitalist, individualist, rugged, alpha male that you are, I am always surprised that you're upset with anyone wanting to make money.  That seems antithetical to your beliefs.

John Angelos is an idiot, but he should have the sense to know that the more the Orioles win, the more money he stands to make.  

I have never said there is an issue with him making money.

But owning a sport franchise has a different type of responsibility than most businesses do. You have a responsibility to field the best product you can. I’m not saying he should spend 160+ million, even though he can. But he should be in the 85-130 range depending on the year and depending on how many cheap players they have.

With how low the payroll is and is going to be, signing a pitcher like Eovaldi for 3/50 (making up a number) should have been easy for him. That’s peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

He just got playoff revenue. He will see  a big jump in ticket sales. Plenty of money to be spent. He has had plenty of money to spend. 

[Spy Fox]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

If now is the time to make some moves, it was also the time at the trade deadline.

I thought that at the trade deadline too and was wrong, so maybe I'll be wrong again. 

But I do think next spring is another level-up of roster crunch over this summer's trade deadline. Kjerstad, Cowser, Mayo, Ortiz, Holliday... they were in the  minors this July but every month that passes some these guys have more of an argument to be with the big club. So it's an evolving situation and I do think there will be a tipping point somewhere.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If now is the time to make some moves, it was also the time at the trade deadline.

 

I don't disagree there unless the right trade offer wasn't there for Elias. With the added wild card spots it seems less teams are willing to be sellers now and we don't know what budget Elias had to work with.

Edited October 11, 2023 by OsFanSinceThe80s

[Tryptamine]

I'll probably get flamed, but as an outsider, it absolutely drives me crazy how little the Baltimore FO/Ownership did to help this team. They put together a historically good farm with several prospects becoming contributors immediately, but that's all they did. They didn't add to the talent in FA; they didn't acquire the talent at the deadline. They just sat on their hands and hoped the farm would carry them. That absolutely drives me nuts. This is not a franchise that can afford to waste the cheap years of control for guys like Henderson, Rutschman, etc. I'm not saying they need to go into 2024 with a 200M payroll, but my god, stop dumpster diving when you're a World Series contender. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Yeah, we're getting to the point where there's a real roster math problem if Elias doesn't make any prospect for big leaguer trades. 

Plus, there's the fact that the FA market this winter is pretty weak. 

Whatever level of splash we see, I think the splashier moves this offseason will probably be trades rather than FA signings. 

Agreed. If there is a big splash move or two to be made this offseason it's going to be through trades. The roster crunch looks unavoidable in 2024 unless Elias is trying to field an all time great AAA team at Norfolk.

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, being the strong capitalist, individualist, rugged, alpha male that you are, I am always surprised that you're upset with anyone wanting to make money.  That seems antithetical to your beliefs.

John Angelos is an idiot, but he should have the sense to know that the more the Orioles win, the more money he stands to make.  

The 2021 team made more profit than the 2016 team.

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The 2021 team made more profit than the 2016 team.

How about that!