Can We Talk About Next Year Now?

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Let's get started...where do we start?

Can't we decompress, forget about everything for a while, let the awards come in a month, then maybe get back into it?

We don't have to be Rogers Hornsby, so myopically, fanatically obsessed with the game that nothing else exists and he stares out the window like a psycho from October through February.

If we jump right into planning next year we'll have to deal with all those people who actually think a playoff series loss means something. That's just too much to bear. I don't really have the energy to go full  on them.

Edited October 11, 2023 by DrungoHazewood

[Rbiggs2525]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It doesn’t work that way and the little big of money they are owed over the next several years has zero impact on anything.

18 million is more than anyone salary on the team. If you add both years that clears 36 million. Our active payroll was 68 million this year. That’s a huge chunk and I want it off the books. We can win with adding Cowser, McDermott, Norby, Mayo and Ortiz to the current roster.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Rbiggs2525

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Rbiggs2525 said:

18 million is more than anyone salary on the team. If you add both years that clears 36 million. Our active payroll was 68 million this year. That’s a huge chunk and I want it off the books. We can win with what adding Cowser, McDermott, Norby, Mayo and Ortiz to the current roster.

18 million?  Where are you getting your numbers?

[Rbiggs2525]

3 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

18 million is more than anyone salary on the team. If you add both years that clears 36 million. Our active payroll was 68 million this year. That’s a huge chunk and I want it off the books. We can win with adding Holliday, Cowser, McDermott, Norby, Mayo and Ortiz to the current roster.

 

[Rbiggs2525]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

18 million?  Where are you getting your numbers?

Apologies 14. Davis is 9.5 and Cobb 4.5. Point remains the same.

[Sports Guy]

The only bats worth a damn in FA are Othani, Bellinger and JD Martinez.

Martinez is basically a no because of the lack of flexibility with him.

Othani is a no because the Os aren’t paying for him.

Bellinger could work if you trade Mullins but Bellinger hadn’t been good since 2019. He is still just 28, so maybe he is just healthy now and will be fine going forward.  Otoh, he has been oft injured already and that’s an issue.

Other than that, there is nothing worth a damn in FA position player wise.

Im still calling about Luis Robert.

[Rbiggs2525]

I think you go to Seattle for Kirby or Gilbert. More expensive cash option but less expensive prospect would be Peralta or Fried. I think Atlanta could give up negotiating with Fried this offseason.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Rbiggs2525

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

Apologies 14. Davis is 9.5 and Cobb 4.5. Point remains the same.

But what point?  And what are those numbers? I mean, they are already getting paid that for next year. So what are you talking about in terms of pay everything off?

[Bemorewins]

7 hours ago, tntoriole said:

It is all still a little too fresh for me.  
Plenty to digest as I sure Elias et al are doing already. 
Part of me thinks however that the offseason will be the same as always.  No big names, no expensive free agents, no major trades .. they will sign guys that are cheap and maybe fixable. 

That is what they have consistently done under Elias/John Angelos. However, didn't we just see the ceiling of that approach? Like I can't see anybody looking at this series and saying, "let's just rinse and repeat". We were totally outclassed in this series and they didn't have their 2 best starters. We only had the lead for ONE SINGLE INNING in the entire series. To me, that screams we need to get better and significantly increase our talent in order to win on this level.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

They traded Frank.

Afterwards. 

[Bemorewins]

7 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

Go get Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Blake Snell -- seriously!  I know I'm probably dreaming, but what more proof does a 101 win team need, after flaming out in the post season, that top pitchers are needed to get this team a World Series?

We're pretty sure we got a lot of great bats coming up from the minors.  Pitching?  Hopefully but not quite as sure.  I say go as big as possible in trying to get one to two top free agent starters and a free agent reliever -- or get them via a trade.  If not Yamamoto or Snell then get an Eduardo Rodriguez, Jordan Montgomery or Aaron Nola or...  Pitching, pitching, pitching! 

You never know who could regress or get hurt.

I agree that we need at least veteran starting pitcher who is actually good to anchor the rotation (not Gibson or a Lyles type - we should be done with that now). We could have had Eovaldi and/or Montgomery instead we had Gibson and Flaherty and that was a big deal in this series. Eduardo Rodriguez and/or Aaron Nola or Blake Snell should be out targets.

The more that I about it, I think Wells and Hall may be able to help us at the back end of our bullpen along with Cano. But I think what is equally important is for us to get a good veteran hitter (no offense to O'Hearn but he is NOT that guy). We need a JD Martinez/Justin Turner type guy who can provide reliable consistency behind Santander. I like Austin Hays but he is not a clean up hitter nor is Mountcastle. They need to be moved down in the lineup.

Bottom line is we are going to need to spend in order to complete the championship puzzle. Can't just go the waiver wire/chaep approach. That get's you Fujinama, Flaherty, Gibson, Webb, Irvin, O'Hearn, etc ... you know guys who don't make a hill of beans of a difference when you enter Fall baseball (and in some cases are straight negatives).

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

Sounds about right though I'd argue we need more than one new arm in the rotation.  We don't know how many innings Means will give us, Grayson may hit some more bumps, for now Kremer looks like a #5, Wells is probably better as a reliever/spot starter -- plus we need to replace Gibson and Flaherty.  

I agree we need a big new FA bat, and it should be an outfield bat.  Hicks is likely gone, Santander/Hays could get traded, and fingers crossed Mullins will start hitting again.  Of the young guys only Kjerstad has shown his bat is ready for the majors right now, but is he an outfielder?  We don't need any more 1B/DH types (unless maybe Mountcastle or O'Hearn is traded -- though that seems a bit unlikely).

If we trade Santander, IMO we do not have serious plans to compete for a pennant. We need to add to our offense, not take away. We have very few reliable power hitters as is. We should be looking to upgrade, not subtract/trade away. I hope that after this season and series, we build on what we have and not start looking to pinch pennies/continue with some sort of never ending rebuild.

We did that this year in the offseason and at the deadline and it cost us dearly in the postseason.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If we trade Santander, IMO we do not have serious plans to compete for a pennant. We need to add to our offense, not take away. We have very few reliable power hitters as is. We should be looking to upgrade, not subtract/trade away. I hope that after this season and series, we build on what we have and not start looking to pinch pennies/continue with some sort of never ending rebuild.

We did that this year in the offseason and at the deadline and it cost us dearly in the postseason.

Santander is a good player but highly overrated on this board by some. He has been an above average hitter the last 2 years but he’s not some lynch pin that can’t be replaced.

On top of that, he is going to make a big chunk of money next year and it is his last year. With all the young talent this team has in the OF and 1st/DH areas, it’s hard to envision him having a long term future here.

 

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, mcneck said:

Doubt we resign any of our FA's

We need a right handed power arm in the BP but other than that well probably run it back with what we have plus Tate.

They'll probably add another Gibson type (maybe a slight upgrade) or just resign him. They'll justify it having Means back for the whole season and Wells in the BP as a backup. I just don't see us spending big this off season.

Figure out the OF.. We'll need to move on soon from Mullins, Hays and Santander due to $$. I can see them moving Santander this off season.. maybe him and another one of Hays and Mullins. May as well see what we have in house and add a few more prospects via trade. Gotta get Kjerstad/Cowser in the lineup with full time ABs soon. Those kids are gonna be special.

I think we'll probably not do much in the IF other than wait on Holliday to arrive and plug him in. We seem pretty set there and having Urias and Mateo coming off the bench is ideal defensively. Wish one of them could hit a bit better but then they'd probably be starting somewhere.

I really feel like we need at least 2 of Adley, Gunnar and Westburg to take the next step and Grayrod as well

With any trades we propose I feel like we should be targeting starting pitching prospects or maybe in the right deal a you get a young 2/3 MLB starter that we control for 2 yrs plus but the $$$ may be too much there

Wish we weren't so poor

A couple of questions for you...

1) With a payroll this low and a team this good, why would we be looking to trade away good players to save money? Do you not feel that the cheap approach that we took in the offseason and deadline cost us in this series? Look at what the Rangers added (offseason and deadline) and look at what we did, did that not make any difference to you?

2) What makes you put Westburg in the category with Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson? What about Jordan Westburg's half of a season in the Majors says to you that he is a foundational piece? Were you overly impressed with the numbers he put up?

3) Why do you say "we are poor"? Angelos is RICH. Like BILLIONAIRE rich. He has money not as much as some of the richest owners but do you need that in order to make effective moves of adding to the team. He can most certainly afford to take the payroll up 35- 50 million which is about what it's going to take.

[btdart20]

53 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Can't we decompress, forget about everything for a while, let the awards come in a month, then maybe get back into it?

We don't have to be Rogers Hornsby, so myopically, fanatically obsessed with the game that nothing else exists and he stares out the window like a psycho from October through February.

If we jump right into planning next year we'll have to deal with all those people who actually think a playoff series loss means something. That's just too much to bear. I don't really have the energy to go full  on them.

  Best of luck in your restraint!

9 hours ago, Just Regular said:

I believe first is where we are most likely to finish in the 2024 AL East.

Agreed.