Who should come to the majors and when? Who should be traded?

[OnlyOneOriole]

2 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Hicks and Frazier are free agents

Yeah I just meant as far as not resigning them. 

[Jagwar]

I have no overarching plan. I've just reached peak McKenna, Mountcastle, Mateo and Urias. 

[Three Run Homer]

I think Mayo is ready with the bat, but I'd like him to start at Norfolk to work on his defense at 3B.  My sense from reading reports is that he has the tools to be playable at 3B but needs more polish.  In the long run it would be huge for the lineup if Mayo could play 3B, Gunnar SS and Holliday 2B.  

Holliday also needs to start at Norfolk since for some reason he mostly played SS this past season.  He needs reps at 2B.    He doesn't need much more seasoning with the bat and given his defensive tools he may be ready for a callup before Mayo.   

Westburg and Ortiz should get the bulk of the playing time in the infield along with Gunnar at the start of the season, until Mayo and Holliday are ready to be called up, after which they become trade bait or utility players.   At least two of Urias, Frazier and Mateo should be let go.  

I think the O's need to make room for Kjerstad and Cowser at the start of next season, which means moving on from at least two from among Hays, O'Hearn, Mountcastle and Santander.  

I acknowledge that all of these steps mean that the O's may take a step back competitively next season as the rookies take their lumps.  I think we probably wind up with better offense from the infield next year, but less from the outfield.   Nevertheless, I think the O's will be better in the long run from letting the young guys play.  As Emerson said:  when half-gods go, the gods arrive.  

[DirtyBird]

21 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Holliday also needs to start at Norfolk since for some reason he mostly played SS this past season.  He needs reps at 2B.    He doesn't need much more seasoning with the bat and given his defensive tools he may be ready for a callup before Mayo.   

2B is easy. He doesn’t need to stay in Norfolk to get reps there. Maybe CF.

[24fps]

15 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I think Mayo is ready with the bat, but I'd like him to start at Norfolk to work on his defense at 3B.  My sense from reading reports is that he has the tools to be playable at 3B but needs more polish.  In the long run it would be huge for the lineup if Mayo could play 3B, Gunnar SS and Holliday 2B.  

Holliday also needs to start at Norfolk since for some reason he mostly played SS this past season.  He needs reps at 2B.    He doesn't need much more seasoning with the bat and given his defensive tools he may be ready for a callup before Mayo.   

Westburg and Ortiz should get the bulk of the playing time in the infield along with Gunnar at the start of the season, until Mayo and Holliday are ready to be called up, after which they become trade bait or utility players.   At least two of Urias, Frazier and Mateo should be let go.  

I think the O's need to make room for Kjerstad and Cowser at the start of next season, which means moving on from at least two from among Hays, O'Hearn, Mountcastle and Santander.  

I acknowledge that all of these steps mean that the O's may take a step back competitively next season as the rookies take their lumps.  I think we probably wind up with better offense from the infield next year, but less from the outfield.   Nevertheless, I think the O's will be better in the long run from letting the young guys play.  As Emerson said:  when half-gods go, the gods arrive.  

Frazier is a FA, Mateo and Urias are controllable.

In 2023, the O's declared themselves a contender - rather convincingly if you ask me.  Therefore they aren't going to be passing out OJT casually so expect Holliday and Mayo to be in the long-term plans but stuck in AAA at least until the AS break barring injury.  IMO what's going to be keeping Elias up every night during the offseason is how to balance the abundance of positional talent needing playing time with the need to maintain a competitive team in the field every day.  I hope he has a pet parrot that screams "PITCHING" every 10 minutes or so to keep him focused.

Love the Emerson quote.

[wildcard]

9 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

I think Mayo is ready with the bat, but I'd like him to start at Norfolk to work on his defense at 3B.  My sense from reading reports is that he has the tools to be playable at 3B but needs more polish.  In the long run it would be huge for the lineup if Mayo could play 3B, Gunnar SS and Holliday 2B.  

Holliday also needs to start at Norfolk since for some reason he mostly played SS this past season.  He needs reps at 2B.    He doesn't need much more seasoning with the bat and given his defensive tools he may be ready for a callup before Mayo.   

Westburg and Ortiz should get the bulk of the playing time in the infield along with Gunnar at the start of the season, until Mayo and Holliday are ready to be called up, after which they become trade bait or utility players.   At least two of Urias, Frazier and Mateo should be let go.  

I think the O's need to make room for Kjerstad and Cowser at the start of next season, which means moving on from at least two from among Hays, O'Hearn, Mountcastle and Santander.  

I acknowledge that all of these steps mean that the O's may take a step back competitively next season as the rookies take their lumps.  I think we probably wind up with better offense from the infield next year, but less from the outfield.   Nevertheless, I think the O's will be better in the long run from letting the young guys play.  As Emerson said:  when half-gods go, the gods arrive.  

I think your infield thinking is right.   But I don't like your OF plan which costs the O's competitively.

The O's won 101 games in 2023.   The goal is to repeat that and get better.  Especially in the playoffs.

Infield:  Ortiz 3B/SS/2B, Gunner SS/3B,  Westfield 2B/3B/CF,   Mountcastle and O'Hearn 1B/DH.  Mateo  UIF/CF.   Frazier gone,  Urias traded.   Holliday learning 2B/CF in AAA until he is ready.   Mayo  learning 3B/1B in AAA until he is ready.  When Holliday and Mayo are ready Ortiz, Westburg  and Mountcastle have options.  Depends on how they are performing.

OF:  Hays LF, Mullins CF, Santander RF/DH, Hicks Backup in outfield corners.    Several players to be tried as CF backup.   Hicks is there now but they should look for someone with more speed.   Holliday has the tools but  begins the season at AAA.  Westburg has shown speed, give him a try in ST.  Mateo  may be able to play CF but he has to hit to get much playing time there.   Cowser: see if he looks better in CF in ST.  McKenna is non tendered and they try to get him to AAA.  He is out of options.

Hays, Mullins, Santander and Hicks all have injury and non performance issues.   Kjerstad and Cowser should begin the season at AAA and be called up when injuries hit.  Hyde/Elias should stop having their vet OFs play through injuries which affect their performance.   DL them and call up Kjerstad or Cowser.

Kjerstad and Cowser are the future but they have to earn their playing time.   Hays, Mullins, Santander  and Hicks will all be gone over the next two years. But they offer a lot to the present.  I don't see any of them being extended.

Trade Urias, Norby and Stowers.  Release Zimmerman and MCKenna.  Gibson, Frazier, Fuji and Flaherty gone as FA.

Edited October 12, 2023 by wildcard

[Safelykept]

13 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

Norby doesn't need to be added to 40-man this off season and doesn't have a defensive position yet. AAA or trade bait

Holiday and Mayo get the Aug 31 Gunnar treatment, Holiday to get more ABs and to settle on his defensive position and Mayo to get better at 1B.They are backup plan for 1B-2B/SS depending on WEstburg, Ortiz, Mounty performance in 1st half.

Westburg at 2B, Ortiz at SS, Gunnar at 3B because he is our best 3B and we have other SS options. Urias showed his GG was not repeatable so trade bait. Mateo can backup 2B and SS with high level defense and his bat plays against lefties. I get him extensive CF reps in ST to see if he can cover that as well.

Cowser and Kjerstad on OD roster with Hays and Mullins. Each playing 3/4 time to keep Hays and Mullins healthy. Wild card is Stowers, he needs to outplay Cowser in ST to win a job or he is trade bait. HK's bat is MLB ready.

Santander and Mounty at 1B-DH with O'Hearn let go or traded. Mounty made some strides with the bat in 2023.

Agree with most Not sure about Ortiz because they may stick with Urias. Stowers? thew wild card with Stowers is he needs other players to get injured lots of them.

[Safelykept]

12 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

You could trade any of those guys and I don't think they would be greatly missed.  Hicks, Frazier as well.

 

I would probably keep Mullins for one more year, and Mateo for the bench.  But everyone else imo can go bye bye. 

Hicks? If Hicks is willing to play here next and Baltimore pays league minimum cant see him not being here one of the other outfielders gets traded for bullpen help sign a free agent starting picture something north of Gibson

[ShoelesJoe]

Gunnar -- SS for the foreseeable future. If it ain't broke ...

Cowser / Norby / Stowers / Kjerstad / Westburg / Ortiz -- three get traded, three are on the team from OD. My guess is Stowers, Ortiz, and Norby are dealt but it will depend on the return. If an actual stud pitcher is dangled by another team I can see Kjerstad and Westburg being traded. 

Jackson Holliday is our starting 2B no later than end of May (barring injury), with a real chance to be on the team from OD if he kills it during the Spring. 

Mayo, same as Holliday except he's at 3B by the end of May. I think his defensive shortcomings are overblown. At worst he'll be average at the hot corner. 

Westburg is our 4th infielder from OD filling in at 2B and 3B until Mayo and/or Holliday are ready.

One of Mountcastle / Hays is dealt for lottery tickets. 

Urias and Mateo are dealt for  lottery tickets. 

Santander stays.

Mullins stays. 

Hicks decides to stay. 

What amazes me is that we just won 101 games with a team led by young stars, and next year we're going to get even younger and (I believe) even better. I don't think I've ever seen that before. 

 

 

 

 

[emmett16]

For the folks putting Westburg in the OF, are you aware he played 7 games in the OF in his entire career MiLB career and 0 games in the OF in MLB last year?  He is fast, yes.  He is not an OFer.  

[DirtyBird]

1 hour ago, emmett16 said:

For the folks putting Westburg in the OF, are you aware he played 7 games in the OF in his entire career MiLB career and 0 games in the OF in MLB last year?  He is fast, yes.  He is not an OFer.  

He’s a baseball player. A move to the OF isn’t that challenging if he has athleticism and instincts. If it wasn’t a possibility, and hadn’t crossed management’s mind, he wouldn’t have played 7 Games there in the minors.

[emmett16]

11 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

He’s a baseball player. A move to the OF isn’t that challenging if he has athleticism and instincts. If it wasn’t a possibility, and hadn’t crossed management’s mind, he wouldn’t have played 7 Games there in the minors.

Sure, it’s a “possibility”.  He played 7 out of 317 career minor league games in the outfield (in an org busting at seams with IFers) and 0 in college*.  So yea, he has about a 0.02% chance I’d say.  
 

If it were a “legit possibility”, he’d of played more than 7 games out there.   
 

*He played 2 games in OF during college summer league play. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by emmett16

[IPlayGM]

Couple thoughts on the hitting/fielding: There are 2 philosophical ways (imo) to improve the team, one is to focus on improving your top end talent, and the other is to raise the floor. I don’t see the Orioles doing way one, especially externally, so I would think they will focus on improving the floor of the roster.  When you look at Texas, their lineup 1-9 was pretty relentless. To improve the total roster, this would be my play:

1. Replace Urias, Frazier and Mateo with Holiday and Ortiz

With these infield guys playing so many positions, I think a 2 for 3 replacement actually makes more sense for playing time purposes, plus it allows for another addition below.

2. Add Cowser and Kjerstad to the outfield mix with Mullins/Hays/Santander 

This allows Hays to play less but in a rotation, and hopefully you get more sustained play from him.

3. Replace O’Hearn

As much as I appreciate what he did this year, I don’t think it’s sustainable.

4. Find a backup CF, preferably a RH

This was a glaring weakness on our roster this year.

5. Add Norby.

This is the one I’m not sure how it fits, but I feel we need to make it fit. This guy feels like Justin Turner. We got rid of him because he didn’t fit and all he has done since is hit. I would hate to lose that.

 

You start the year with Westburg 3B, Holliday 2B, Ortiz utility playing 3+ times a week, and when Mayo is ready you make him fit.

[Rbiggs2525]

Very few will go besides the impending free agents. They will give Urias, Mateo a chance to stick due to being cheap and GG type potential defense. This is our guys and they are not going to make irrational decisions based on 3 games. Dodgers were swept too and the Braves are down 2-1. They will build from within. I would like to eventually see less platoons. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

The Orioles should be making a trade, but there is a path where they don’t make any trades and have all of Ortiz, Cowser and Kjerstad on the Opening Day roster:

-If all are healthy, carry an extra position player (14) for the month of April with the increased number of off days. (Adley, Gunnar, Santander, Mullins, Hays, O’Hearn, Mountcastle, Westburg, Kjerstad, Cowser, Ortiz, Urias, Mateo, McCann). 

-Kjerstad, Cowser and O’Hearn play against RHP and Mountcastle, Hays and one of McCann/Mateo/Urias against LHP. 

-Any injuries to any non-catcher “fix the problem” of the extra position player. In the meantime, they have April to evaluate Kjerstad/Cowser.

-Mayo and Holliday start in the minors to be called up by trading deadline - at that point the team is better informed on how to make roster space (if needed) and what position they should be / are capable of playing. 

-Norby and Stowers remain in AAA as depth or are traded if there is value to be had. IMO both are 45 FV prospects that profile best as bench players, but still have some starting upside that could be capitalized on in trade. If not, no need to force the issue, Norby does not need to be on the 40-man yet and Stowers still has 2 option years remaining.

-Let Santander and O’Hearn walk as free agents after 2024 and that alleviates the “logjam.” They may be able to get a QO pick out of Santander. Basallo and Beavers are the only higher probability prospects coming from AA and lower.