Infield alignment

[maybenxtyr]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes, young players who need time to acclimate themselves. Some do it immediately, some don’t.

You have no contingency plans. Your plan revolves around keeping most of the team and just assuming things will be good with everyone. You can’t assume that. That’s what happened after 2012 and 2014.

You can still keep most of the team in tact while adding higher ceiling guys that give you more of a margin for error.

It's going to be a long winter if every conversation comes back to, "what about 101 wins". 

 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:

It's going to be a long winter if every conversation comes back to, "what about 101 wins". 

 

But that is the exact mentality some will have. 

It’s non sensical. The best teams every year do things to get better especially if they lose key pieces, as the Os have and will have.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

It's going to be a long winter if every conversation comes back to, "what about 101 wins". 

 

You know it will.

[btdart20]

17 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

It's going to be a long winter if every conversation comes back to, "what about 101 wins". 

 

It's not that different than the IF roster turnover chatter moving from 2022 to 2023.  I know I posted multiple times about 'shots on goal' with the various IF prospects but clearly Elias preferred stable support around the RIP.  

Change introduces risk.  Change in other team rosters.  Change in our clubhouse.  Developing a new pitch, working out a certain way, getting a year older...  As more landmarks change, the more difficult the modeling/measurements become.

[Matt Bennett]

16 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Sure,  but at the same time if we can improve, we should.   

O'Hearn was a great story, but he seriously faded down the stretch.  Was he reverting back to the O'Hearn prior to this year?  We have some potentially really good bats who could play 1st or could play RF letting Santander play first.  Be it Mayo, Kjerstad, etc.

Mullins has regressed every year since his magical 30/30 campaign.  In his favor is we really don't have anyone to really play CF and Mullins is still playing elite CF defense, though the bat was average.

Hays started on fire,  but also faded tremendously in the 2nd half of the year.   I'm not sure his .667 OPS in the 2nd half is worth continuing to trot out there if we have someone else who can man LF but hit more consistently. 

Frazier - gone.  Whoever we put here is likely an improvement both on defense and offense.

Mateo - strictly bench role/pinch hitting, fine.  Starting a few times a week?  No.  If Hyde insists on him starting regularly then get him off of the roster IMO.

Urias - should be gone too IMO.  Bat was poor, glove was not as good.   His and Mateos at bats should go to Ortiz/Westburg/Henderson/Norby/Mayo/Holiday.

I'm not touching the pitching right now,  but simply because we had a great year that doesn't mean we should be stagnant and just bring everyone back.   We can improve and we should. 

I think this is a bit harsh of a conclusion of a few players, notably Mullins. He suffered a groin injury, rushed back, re-injured it, came back, and wasn't the same guy. We all saw it. After the 2nd one I believe he was quoted as saying "I hope I can play again this season". And then he was back out there soon after. Odd. 

He was off to a fantastic start to the season (8 homers, 13 SB's) in April/May and looked very comparable to that 2021 Mullins. Injuries derailed that and sometimes injuries need an off-season to fully heal. I'm not a physician and correlation is not causation but damn, Mullins is a star and I'm willing to bet on him in 2024. Even if he's never a 6.0 WAR player again, 110 OPS+ Gold Glove Caliber centerfielders don't grow on trees. There was a step back in 2022 but I can attribute that to the league's LHP adjusting to him before him adjusting back. His left handed only sophomore slump if you want. His 2nd half 2022 was much better than his 1st half. 

I think just looking at the slash lines at the end of the season doesn't do Cedric's story justice. 

As for Hays and Urias, I think it's much more accurate to say that at least one move should be made to clear a positional log-jam that is due to an abundance of productive veterans and big league ready high profile prospects. Yes, that could include a trade of Hays and/or Urias. Or it doesn't involve them. They'll listen to whatever value calculator they have and maybe that's the best way to open up a spot or two. But in no way have they played themselves off the roster. Hays has shown over and over he's a solid all-around corner outfielder. Urias is a perfect bench guy. 106 OPS+ and a gold glove with the O's. I saw the bout of yips he had in the 2nd half last year but I have felt very comfortable with Urias at 3rd and 2nd. Maybe they've both hit their high water marks but if you know when players will regress, you should be working in a front office. Both have shown their usefulness for years now. 

[OrangeTurtle]

Disagree with the premise that Mayo plays INF. See him as our future RF. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

I think this is a bit harsh of a conclusion of a few players, notably Mullins. He suffered a groin injury, rushed back, re-injured it, came back, and wasn't the same guy. We all saw it. After the 2nd one I believe he was quoted as saying "I hope I can play again this season". And then he was back out there soon after. Odd. 

He was off to a fantastic start to the season (8 homers, 13 SB's) in April/May and looked very comparable to that 2021 Mullins. Injuries derailed that and sometimes injuries need an off-season to fully heal. I'm not a physician and correlation is not causation but damn, Mullins is a star and I'm willing to bet on him in 2024. Even if he's never a 6.0 WAR player again, 110 OPS+ Gold Glove Caliber centerfielders don't grow on trees. There was a step back in 2022 but I can attribute that to the league's LHP adjusting to him before him adjusting back. His left handed only sophomore slump if you want. His 2nd half 2022 was much better than his 1st half. 

I think just looking at the slash lines at the end of the season doesn't do Cedric's story justice. 

As for Hays and Urias, I think it's much more accurate to say that at least one move should be made to clear a positional log-jam that is due to an abundance of productive veterans and big league ready high profile prospects. Yes, that could include a trade of Hays and/or Urias. Or it doesn't involve them. They'll listen to whatever value calculator they have and maybe that's the best way to open up a spot or two. But in no way have they played themselves off the roster. Hays has shown over and over he's a solid all-around corner outfielder. Urias is a perfect bench guy. 106 OPS+ and a gold glove with the O's. I saw the bout of yips he had in the 2nd half last year but I have felt very comfortable with Urias at 3rd and 2nd. Maybe they've both hit their high water marks but if you know when players will regress, you should be working in a front office. Both have shown their usefulness for years now. 

It's just odd how everytime someone has a down season posters look for an injury excuse.

If they aren't healthy they shouldn't be back.

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

But that is the exact mentality some will have. 

It’s non sensical. The best teams every year do things to get better especially if they lose key pieces, as the Os have and will have.

Yeah .. like Adam Frazier .. (joke) 

[Matt Bennett]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's just odd how everytime someone has a down season posters look for an injury excuse.

If they aren't healthy they shouldn't be back.

Athletes across sports, at times, are healthy enough to play and hurt enough to zap their effectiveness. I'm not in those rooms when decisions are made but they are made: necessity, denial, etc. Off-season surgeries happen all the time for players that didn't really miss much time. I saw Mullins hit .190 for an extended stretch after he came back from injury. He's not that guy. This wasn't just typical regression. Believe what you want. It's not something I can prove but it's my opinion from watching him play daily for years. 

[Pickles]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's just odd how everytime someone has a down season posters look for an injury excuse.

If they aren't healthy they shouldn't be back.

So now we should cut Mullins?  LOL.

Perfectly reasonable position.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Pickles said:

So now we should cut Mullins?  LOL.

Perfectly reasonable position.

Even for you that's a huge leap.

You know I didn't say anything of the sort.

 

[tntoriole]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's just odd how everytime someone has a down season posters look for an injury excuse.

If they aren't healthy they shouldn't be back.

Cedric hopefully will really strengthen in rehab these groin and thigh areas this winter .. guys that rely on their legs that have chronic thigh/groin injuries an go downhill verry fast .. he is 29 and heading to first arb year so hopefully he will have couple more excellent seasons but if he was 31 right now?  Lot of concerns. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Athletes across sports, at times, are healthy enough to play and hurt enough to zap their effectiveness. I'm not in those rooms when decisions are made but they are made: necessity, denial, etc. Off-season surgeries happen all the time for players that didn't really miss much time. I saw Mullins hit .190 for an extended stretch after he came back from injury. He's not that guy. This wasn't just typical regression. Believe what you want. It's not something I can prove but it's my opinion from watching him play daily for years. 

If he was still hurt why did the FO let him play?

That's the part I don't understand when folks want to blame injuries, the FO and manager shouldn't let them play hurt.  It doesn't help the team.

[Matt Bennett]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he was still hurt why did the FO let him play?

That's the part I don't understand when folks want to blame injuries, the FO and manager shouldn't let them play hurt.  It doesn't help the team.

Healthy enough to play, not healthy enough to play well. But you don't know that until they play. It's a common occurrence in sports. I'm sure they thought even reduced effectiveness was going to be beneficial, or that he would struggle as he adjusts but then returns to normal. He didn't. It happens. 

[forphase1]

18 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

I think this is a bit harsh of a conclusion of a few players, notably Mullins. He suffered a groin injury, rushed back, re-injured it, came back, and wasn't the same guy. We all saw it. After the 2nd one I believe he was quoted as saying "I hope I can play again this season". And then he was back out there soon after. Odd. 

He was off to a fantastic start to the season (8 homers, 13 SB's) in April/May and looked very comparable to that 2021 Mullins. Injuries derailed that and sometimes injuries need an off-season to fully heal. I'm not a physician and correlation is not causation but damn, Mullins is a star and I'm willing to bet on him in 2024. Even if he's never a 6.0 WAR player again, 110 OPS+ Gold Glove Caliber centerfielders don't grow on trees. There was a step back in 2022 but I can attribute that to the league's LHP adjusting to him before him adjusting back. His left handed only sophomore slump if you want. His 2nd half 2022 was much better than his 1st half. 

I think just looking at the slash lines at the end of the season doesn't do Cedric's story justice. 

As for Hays and Urias, I think it's much more accurate to say that at least one move should be made to clear a positional log-jam that is due to an abundance of productive veterans and big league ready high profile prospects. Yes, that could include a trade of Hays and/or Urias. Or it doesn't involve them. They'll listen to whatever value calculator they have and maybe that's the best way to open up a spot or two. But in no way have they played themselves off the roster. Hays has shown over and over he's a solid all-around corner outfielder. Urias is a perfect bench guy. 106 OPS+ and a gold glove with the O's. I saw the bout of yips he had in the 2nd half last year but I have felt very comfortable with Urias at 3rd and 2nd. Maybe they've both hit their high water marks but if you know when players will regress, you should be working in a front office. Both have shown their usefulness for years now. 

Every single player has some story to help explain their season just beyond the slash lines, be it Mullins, Hays, Mateo or heck even those with good slash lines like Henderson.  But in the end the numbers are what the numbers are.  Mullins has regressed for 2 straight years.  Be it injuries or the league catching up to him or whatever.  Looking at 2024 and beyond, we need to try to figure out which Mullins we are going to get.  He plays a great CF and was have no one in the wings to really take his spot, so he's 'safe' so to speak.  But if we are going to have an average Mullins fielding CF all year long, then we need to improve our lineup in other areas to account for the lesser production from CF.  We'd all love to see the Mullins from 2021 return, or the great Mullins we had to start the year.  Heck, we'd all love to see the April Mateo return!  But is that realistic?  Or just wishful thinking?