Cease vs everyone else

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

The fact is, having a stud FA starter wouldn’t have won us that Rangers series.   And getting one now or not won’t necessarily determine whether we win a playoff series next year.  I’d like to get someone, but making the playoffs and then getting somewhere depends on a whole array of things going well, and no one thing will decide it.  

It definitely could have made a difference but yes, the playoffs are largely a crapshoot.

The goal should be to be yourself in better position to best the best teams in October.

[E-D-D-I-E]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Not really analogous.  We lost three very important players from the 2014 team in Markakis, Cruz and Miller.   Gibson, Frazier and Hicks aren’t of that caliber.  We also got a bit unlucky with Duquette’s efforts to patch together an outfield to replace Markakis and Cruz.  

However, if your point is that 2023 success doesn’t guarantee 2024 success, that’s fair enough.
 

Lol a bit unlucky? It is my hope that a smart man you doesn't believe that. There was zero talent in the 2015 outfield. The O's used more LF and RF than any club in history up until 2015 and probably still. It was like 15. That off-season was a joke and Duqette and Angelos both should have been literally ashamed. Incompetence on all sides. 

[Pickles]

3 hours ago, dystopia said:

If you think we have a 100 win team then we should should try and improve to a 110 win team. Winning 100 games doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try and improve. 

That's fair and we all agree.  Literally, nobody is saying, "Stand pat."   Now we have different takes on what that means, and we have different risk profiles, different targets, different desires, etc. and when the conversation is within those parameters it is constructive and interesting.

But to come in here in 2023, talking about f-ing "percolating", which is from like 15 years ago, as some critique of the current regime, draws my ire.  LOL.

[forphase1]

21 minutes ago, Pickles said:

That's fair and we all agree.  Literally, nobody is saying, "Stand pat."   Now we have different takes on what that means, and we have different risk profiles, different targets, different desires, etc. and when the conversation is within those parameters it is constructive and interesting.

But to come in here in 2023, talking about f-ing "percolating", which is from like 15 years ago, as some critique of the current regime, draws my ire.  LOL.

Sure sounds like some want to stand pat.  Every time someone talks about upgrading Mateo or Urias or whatever and mentions how poorly they played at times, inevitably someone jumps in with 'but we won 100 games with them!'  We all know we won a ton of games and had a great year.   And I certainly get not wanting to make huge changes.   But I personally think we can certainly improve the team by replacing some underperforming spots on the roster with more talented rookies.  

[Frobby]

53 minutes ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

Lol a bit unlucky? It is my hope that a smart man you doesn't believe that. There was zero talent in the 2015 outfield. The O's used more LF and RF than any club in history up until 2015 and probably still. It was like 15. That off-season was a joke and Duqette and Angelos both should have been literally ashamed. Incompetence on all sides. 

I have written sbout this in detail in the past.  Pretty much every corner outfielder the Orioles used in 2015 underperformed their career numbers and their 2014 numbers by a wide margin.  I don’t feel like citing chapter and verse, but you can check and see that it’s true.  And look especially at De Aza and Parra.  De Aza had a .636 OPS for the O’s, got traded in June and posted .809 the rest of the year.  Parra was having an .886 season for the Brewers, got traded to the O’s and was at .625 the rest of the year. (I’m not suggesting that Parra was an .886 hitter, but he wasn’t a .625 hitter either.) That’s just how it went with our corner outfielders that year.  

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Sure sounds like some want to stand pat.  Every time someone talks about upgrading Mateo or Urias or whatever and mentions how poorly they played at times, inevitably someone jumps in with 'but we won 100 games with them!'  We all know we won a ton of games and had a great year.   And I certainly get not wanting to make huge changes.   But I personally think we can certainly improve the team by replacing some underperforming spots on the roster with more talented rookies.  

Plenty of people are either ok with standing pat or essentially bringing in the exact team as last year, even if some of the names are different.

So yes, there are people saying we should stand pat and 101 win season of 2023 is their reasoning. It’s disingenuous to act otherwise.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Plenty of people are either ok with standing pat or essentially bringing in the exact team as last year, even if some of the names are different.

So yes, there are people saying we should stand pat and 101 win season of 2023 is their reasoning. It’s disingenuous to act otherwise.

Show examples of who is saying that’s what the team should do.  I can’t think of anyone saying that.  

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

Show examples of who is saying that’s what the team should do.  I can’t think of anyone saying that.  

I mean, it’s been on here since the season ended. WC is certainly saying things like that. Pickles has said it. There have been plenty of arguments where we could essentially bring in another Gibson like guy and sign a reliever and be ready to go.

Like I said, the names may be different but the talent level people have said to bring in isn’t much different.

[Pickles]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I mean, it’s been on here since the season ended. WC is certainly saying things like that. Pickles has said it. There have been plenty of arguments where we could essentially bring in another Gibson like guy and sign a reliever and be ready to go.

Like I said, the names may be different but the talent level people have said to bring in isn’t much different.

When have I said what?

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Pickles said:

When have I said what?

You have said we are a playoff team right now.  That we don’t have to add to do it.

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You have said we are a playoff team right now.  That we don’t have to add to do it.

I've said I believe we are a playoff team right now.  

We should still improve our roster.

[Pickles]

52 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Sure sounds like some want to stand pat.  Every time someone talks about upgrading Mateo or Urias or whatever and mentions how poorly they played at times, inevitably someone jumps in with 'but we won 100 games with them!'  We all know we won a ton of games and had a great year.   And I certainly get not wanting to make huge changes.   But I personally think we can certainly improve the team by replacing some underperforming spots on the roster with more talented rookies.  

Show me somebody who has turned either Mateo or Urias into a line in the sand. 

[forphase1]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Show me somebody who has turned either Mateo or Urias into a line in the sand. 

I never claimed it was a 'line in the sand' for anyone, now did I?  But there are threads, such as the tendering players thread, where someone complains about the likelihood of an infield with Urias and Mateo to start the season now, and the immediate response is something like 'yeah, it would suck to win 100 games again'.  

[Pickles]

47 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I never claimed it was a 'line in the sand' for anyone, now did I?  But there are threads, such as the tendering players thread, where someone complains about the likelihood of an infield with Urias and Mateo to start the season now, and the immediate response is something like 'yeah, it would suck to win 100 games again'.  

So?

Did you not want to tender one of them?  They both clearly should have been tendered imo.

 

[forphase1]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

So?

Did you not want to tender one of them?  They both clearly should have been tendered imo.

 

Honestly I didn't want us to tender either, and was hoping we wouldn't tender at least one of them.  I'm not content with returning pretty much the exact same team in 2024 as we fielded in 2023, and I think we can get better than BOTH Mateo and Urias.  Sure, we can still trade or cut one or both of them, but I was hoping at least one would go on and be gone to get that process actually started.  Until one or both is gone, I expect them to be on the roster and both be getting considerable playing time while more talented players stew in AAA, just like last year.  Right or wrong, good or bad.  If they are on the roster, they will be getting playing time.  So I want them off the roster by about any means possible.    

But back on point, some folks are content to simply bring back the band, replacing Gibson with another comparable pitcher, let Westburg replace Frazier, and roll the dice.  I get it, we had an awesome year.  But I think we need to take some real steps forward as some of what we did last year is unlikely to be repeated, and we have the talent in the minors to make some real solid moves internally.