JD Martinez

[Spy Fox]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Tyler ONeill is high on my list. He has usually hit lefties very well. His defense is  maybe average but he does have a very good arm.

I think you have to be careful not to go too crazy for him because of a big one year jump up but he is someone to consider.

O'Neill is exactly the type of guy I expect them to go after to replace Santander as a lower cost and more defensively flexible RHH outfielder. 

I was wondering if Fenway played a big part in his rebound but actually he was much better on the road this season. 

[DirtyBird]

This discussion is gross. The FA options are a steaming pile of poop.

[Bemorewins]

45 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

O'Neill is exactly the type of guy I expect them to go after to replace Santander as a lower cost and more defensively flexible RHH outfielder. 

I was wondering if Fenway played a big part in his rebound but actually he was much better on the road this season. 

I struggle to understand the logic of us cost cutting or targeting players who are lower cost. We are what 27th in MLB in payroll? Is the goal to be 30th?

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I struggle to understand the logic of us cost cutting or targeting players who are lower cost. We are what 27th in MLB in payroll? Is the goal to be 30th?

Why do you get so caught up in payroll prices?

The Os have Gunnar for 750K next year.  Do you think we would be a better team spending 15-20M on Wily Adames?  

[DirtyBird]

How much can we sign Austin Hays for when Philly non-tenders him?

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Why do you get so caught up in payroll prices?

The Os have Gunnar for 750K next year.  Do you think we would be a better team spending 15-20M on Wily Adames?  

Nope. Never said or suggested anything like I would rather have Wily Adames over Gunnar. But extending Gunnar would be great!

To answer your original question of why am I concerned about payroll is because I want better for the Baltimore Orioles than simply a playoff birth at this point. And I want the team to be relevant in the market so that more fans/people are drawn to support the team.

The nickle and diming approach is not attractive to a lot of people/fans. The message it sends is that we are willing to go this far and no further. And historically speaking it does not produce championships. 40+ years and counting is long enough for me.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Nope. Never said or suggested anything like I would rather have Wily Adames over Gunnar. But extending Gunnar would be great!

To answer your original question of why am I concerned about payroll is because I want better for the Baltimore Orioles than simply a playoff birth at this point. And I want the team to be relevant in the market so that more fans/people are drawn to support the team.

The nickle and diming approach is not attractive to a lot of people/fans. The message it sends is that we are willing to go this far and no further. And historically speaking it does not produce championships. 40+ years and counting is long enough for me.

But you think spending money means we are better.  You mentioned Alonso...He will cost 15-20M, at least. He is not better than what we already have yet YOU would feel better because money is spent.

If are buying the same product, would you rather pay $10 or $50? Spending less on Tyler Oneill than Alonso to get similar production is just smart.  

Everything about your way of thinking is illogical. You don't show any understanding of payroll, how it works, how to spend properly, etc...all you see is the total number and you equate that to winning...which is bs.

And btw, you are suggesting that (w/r/t Adames).  The Orioles have Henderson, Holliday, Mayo, Cowser, GRod, Bautista, Cano, Westburg and Kjerstad making about 7M in 2025. You see that as a problem because "we can spend more money and the payroll should be higher" when in fact part of the reason the payroll is low is because the Os have a lot of cheap young talent providing a ton of surplus value. You don't block that or trade that or anything else just so you can feel better about a payroll number because that gives you some false sense of security that "they are trying".

The O's ended with a payroll over 100M this year. 40M is coming off of that payroll and then some will be added in because of some raises, a full year of Eflin and some options that will be picked up.  Right now, I would estimate the payroll to be about 82M for 21 players. Of the remaining players, you need 2 starters (one of those 2 starters may already be in the org and they won't be making any money either), 2 bench guys (one of them being a back up C) and a reliever.

There is room to spend and they should but the roster is likely 75-80% set. There is only so much room to go up in payroll and they don't need to "go crazy" so that people feel better about things.  That's dumb and foolish.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But you think spending money means we are better.  You mentioned Alonso...He will cost 15-20M, at least. He is not better than what we already have yet YOU would feel better because money is spent.

If are buying the same product, would you rather pay $10 or $50? Spending less on Tyler Oneill than Alonso to get similar production is just smart.  

Everything about your way of thinking is illogical. You don't show any understanding of payroll, how it works, how to spend properly, etc...all you see is the total number and you equate that to winning...which is bs.

And btw, you are suggesting that (w/r/t Adames).  The Orioles have Henderson, Holliday, Mayo, Cowser, GRod, Bautista, Cano, Westburg and Kjerstad making about 7M in 2025. You see that as a problem because "we can spend more money and the payroll should be higher" when in fact part of the reason the payroll is low is because the Os have a lot of cheap young talent providing a ton of surplus value. You don't block that or trade that or anything else just so you can feel better about a payroll number because that gives you some false sense of security that "they are trying".

The O's ended with a payroll over 100M this year. 40M is coming off of that payroll and then some will be added in because of some raises, a full year of Eflin and some options that will be picked up.  Right now, I would estimate the payroll to be about 82M for 21 players. Of the remaining players, you need 2 starters (one of those 2 starters may already be in the org and they won't be making any money either), 2 bench guys (one of them being a back up C) and a reliever.

There is room to spend and they should but the roster is likely 75-80% set. There is only so much room to go up in payroll and they don't need to "go crazy" so that people feel better about things.  That's dumb and foolish.

I knew this was coming...lol

Telling me what I think and then the name calling. I'll refrain.

Have a nice day friend!

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

I knew this was coming...lol

Telling me what I think and then the name calling. I'll refrain.

Have a nice day friend!

I didn't call you any names.  Stop being so dramatic.  And It is what you think.  Its obvious to anyone who has read your posts the last few years.  

[Spy Fox]

20 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I struggle to understand the logic of us cost cutting or targeting players who are lower cost. We are what 27th in MLB in payroll? Is the goal to be 30th?

I don't really see O'Neill as cost cutting, it would still require a larger contract than Elias has given out yet. I mainly meant lower cost than Santander in particular. This is assuming Santander can get a 3-4 year deal but O'Neill can be had for less years and total $, which I think is likely and makes more sense for the O's in terms of how they allocate. 

On the SP side I'm hoping the O's play closer to the top of the market. 

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Spy Fox said:

I don't really see O'Neill as cost cutting, it would still require a larger contract than Elias has given out yet. I mainly meant lower cost than Santander in particular. This is assuming Santander can get a 3-4 year deal but O'Neill can be had for less years and total $, which I think is likely and makes more sense for the O's in terms of how they allocate. 

On the SP side I'm hoping the O's play closer to the top of the market. 

Understood. Thanks for clarifying. I don't hate the approach. As long as we are looking to make serious improvements I am all for it.

[Spy Fox]

31 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

How much can we sign Austin Hays for when Philly non-tenders him?

It is funny how much Hays (the pre-2024 version anyway) matches the type of player they'll likely look for. I doubt that reunion happens though. 

[casadeozo]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

But you think spending money means we are better.  You mentioned Alonso...He will cost 15-20M, at least. He is not better than what we already have yet YOU would feel better because money is spent.

If are buying the same product, would you rather pay $10 or $50? Spending less on Tyler Oneill than Alonso to get similar production is just smart.  

Everything about your way of thinking is illogical. You don't show any understanding of payroll, how it works, how to spend properly, etc...all you see is the total number and you equate that to winning...which is bs.

And btw, you are suggesting that (w/r/t Adames).  The Orioles have Henderson, Holliday, Mayo, Cowser, GRod, Bautista, Cano, Westburg and Kjerstad making about 7M in 2025. You see that as a problem because "we can spend more money and the payroll should be higher" when in fact part of the reason the payroll is low is because the Os have a lot of cheap young talent providing a ton of surplus value. You don't block that or trade that or anything else just so you can feel better about a payroll number because that gives you some false sense of security that "they are trying".

The O's ended with a payroll over 100M this year. 40M is coming off of that payroll and then some will be added in because of some raises, a full year of Eflin and some options that will be picked up.  Right now, I would estimate the payroll to be about 82M for 21 players. Of the remaining players, you need 2 starters (one of those 2 starters may already be in the org and they won't be making any money either), 2 bench guys (one of them being a back up C) and a reliever.

There is room to spend and they should but the roster is likely 75-80% set. There is only so much room to go up in payroll and they don't need to "go crazy" so that people feel better about things.  That's dumb and foolish.

This is the right approach.

the orioles should be spending more money and I believe they will, but I expect it to be measured with less risk (ie we won’t be handing out a Hader type deal or a  long term contract to Santander IMO)

improving on some of the obvious weaknesses certainly makes sense. 
 

1x SP: Burnes, Fried, Buehler

1x RH OF/DH: Martinez, O’Neill, Profar

1x 1B: (wishlist) Alonso, Walker

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Nope. Never said or suggested anything like I would rather have Wily Adames over Gunnar. But extending Gunnar would be great!

To answer your original question of why am I concerned about payroll is because I want better for the Baltimore Orioles than simply a playoff birth at this point. And I want the team to be relevant in the market so that more fans/people are drawn to support the team.

The nickle and diming approach is not attractive to a lot of people/fans. The message it sends is that we are willing to go this far and no further. And historically speaking it does not produce championships. 40+ years and counting is long enough for me.

What you want is perfectly reasonable.  But you seem entirely to focused on money.  The team needs to work to improve.  I don't care what it costs, you shouldn't either.  They are going to spend money and payroll will be higher next year and the year after that.  We need them to make improvements and some of that is rightfully going to come from within and not cost much.

The improvements that are needed are going to cost too, I'm not saying they wont.  But ownership and the GM should simply work in tandem to make sure the team has what it needs.  I am not really concerned about how much that costs because it should be able to be done without jumping this particular team into say top ten in payroll.

[Bahama O's Fan]

On the O's this year, Martinez would have been:

5th in OPS

5th in AVG

6th in HRs

in 120 games