Roch: Holliday, Mayo, Kjerstad, Stowers, Norby, and Al Suarez optioned

[DirtyBird]

51 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Don't know if this was a good baseball decision

Don't know if this was a good financial decision

I do know that I will never buy a ticket to watch Mateo or Wong play baseball.

As long as you keep posting though, we will all be happy.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

Well Boras is the most difficult agent when it comes to contract demands. Definitely notorious for that reason.

Sure.

 

[btdart20]

8 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

S

Agree.  This makes way more sense compared to what they are doing.

 

Which I cannot wrap my head around.  It honestly seems like the worst of a game theory win win lose scenario. 

It buys time to read the ROY candidates?  If a few get off to a solid start, then does that speed up the promotion date?  If they are off to a slow start, does it stall Holliday's debut?

[Jagwar]

50 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I predict Mateo thrives in superutility role and his bat contributes way beyond expectations in 2024. 

Other than his speed, I'm not sure he's ever thrived in a non-starting role. I predict a low .600 OPS and just below replacement value. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

I think the Orioles sent Holliday down with the intent of getting the extra year of control, but there’s some slim possibility that they are potentially doing it for just the two weeks to essentially give him extended spring training with more starts at 2B and appearances against LHP, while they instead use that roster spot on Tyler Nevin for an extra RH bat while the MLB team faces a bunch of LHP SP early. Then they could call Holliday up before the deadline for the extra year of control and still have him ROY eligible. 

I wouldn’t do that myself but I can kind of see the logic in it. He only had 18 games in AAA last year. Another 12 on top of the Spring Training time this year is still a meaningful amount, but doesn’t really hurt his ROY chances (especially with a lot of those games he would be missing being against LHP). And would keep Nevin in the org for a little bit longer before they have to DFA him, if they’re worried about that for some reason (I’m not…).

They’re technically not committing to either path yet. The real hard deadline for the decision of ROY vs. service time is in ~2 weeks.

Of course, if they keep Wong or even McKenna instead of Nevin, that indicates they’re thinking more long term about the bench than just trying to optimize it for the 2 weeks with a bunch of LHP on deck before calling up Holliday. So will be curious to see the choice there and if that indicates anything. 

[sportsfan8703]

20 hours ago, interloper said:

Nevin is still here, too. 

lol. That thread about Nevin making the OD roster and the comment I made doesn’t look too crazy now?  I mean we do face two of three LH SP in the first series. 

I wanted Holliday on this team. Nevin was just a prediction and reading between the lines. 

Cowser might not make OD because of the LH SP too, but will be up shortly. Likely. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, webbrick2010 said:

 

I do know that I will never buy a ticket to watch Mateo or Wong play baseball.

I don’t think I’ve ever bought a ticket to watch any individual player play baseball.  I’m an Orioles fan and I pay to see the team play.  

That said, and although I would have been perfectly happy if we’d moved on from Mateo, there are times when he is highly entertaining to watch.  When he’s running at top gear, like on Adam Frazier’s game-tying double in the Sept. 17 Tampa game, he’s jaw-dropping.  And he can be pretty spectacular on defense, too.    
 

[Cheetos]

14 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Bad BAD move imo.  The excitement for the team and for the fans imo is worth a few wins alone in the first month if JH starts OD.

 

It would give the team a sense of energy that you just don't get by starting a JAG.  IMO this casts a pall on the entire team, which has been dominating the entire pre season.  Same goes for Mayo getting cut.  Heston too.

 

I sincerely hope that they rethink this move(s).  Imo it could completely derail the momo this team has.  Team psyche is worth a lot. And this does not help it.

Good grief.  How many accounts is Jason La Canfora allowed on this site?  Comments like this are almost as outrageous as JLT’s Wikipedia page bio.

Jason La Canforaborn April 14, 1974) is an American sportswriter, radio host, television sports analyst and health advocate.

[CaptainRedbeard]

16 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

lol. That thread about Nevin making the OD roster and the comment I made doesn’t look too crazy now?  I mean we do face two of three LH SP in the first series. 

I wanted Holliday on this team. Nevin was just a prediction and reading between the lines. 

Cowser might not make OD because of the LH SP too, but will be up shortly. Likely. 

Long term it doesn’t make sense to have Nevin around just to DH against LHP SP and pinch hit for O’Hearn or Cowser when only ~20% of games are started by LHP, especially when McCann is going to start many of those games with Adley DHing as they did last year. It’s just a really inefficient use of that roster spot, and if Holliday were in it instead that would push Urias to the bench as the extra RH bat (since they are still going to want to start Holliday a fair bit against LHP to get that experience, and Mateo will play against LHP too).

But if they’re facing more LHP SP in the first couple weeks, and there’s a number of built in off days in April so Adley can probably catch more, it makes more sense as a temporary fit. And kicks the can down the road on keeping Nevin around as depth for injuries early in the season if they expect him to get claimed when they DFA him.

There’s also just the fact that, notwithstanding his spring training, Nevin isn’t a good player. He’s a RH hitter with not enough power to be valuable considering he doesn’t offer defensive value beyond the “flexibility” to be a bad defender at the corner spots. He’s 26 years old and in 313 MLB PA has a wRC+ of 79. He’s a quintessential AAAA guy. 

[baltfan]

Said this in another thread but in the Spring Holliday did have 9 strikeouts in 15 at-bats vs. lefties.  I think if they bring him up, they want him to play full time.  

[Frobby]

13 hours ago, forphase1 said:

As I said,  service time is guaranteed IF you keep him down long enough.   Clearly if they bring him up in 2 weeks he can still finish in the top 2 ROY voting and the year is then lost.  But in 2 months it'd be doubtful, and the longer he's down, the less the chance he can challenge for top 2.  At some point its pretty much guaranteed.     

This got me wondering, what is the fewest games a position player has played and still finished in the top 2 for ROY?  I looked at all the voting from 2000 to now (the short 2020 season excluded):

Gary Sanchez 53 games

Trea Turner 73

Yordan Alvarez 87

Ryan Howard 88

Wil Meyers 88

Carlos Correa 99

Francisco Lindor 99

Shohei Ohtani 104

Buster Posey 108

Paul DeJong 108

Jose Iglesias 109

Ronald Acuna 111

Ryan Braun 113

Adley Rutschman 113

Michael Harris II 114

Juan Soto 116

Jason Bay 120

So where would you draw the line if you were trying to ensure Holliday played as many games as possible without finishing in the top 2 for Rookie of the Year?

 

 

Edited March 23 by Frobby

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Said this in another thread but in the Spring Holliday did have 9 strikeouts in 15 at-bats vs. lefties.  I think if they bring him up, they want him to play full time.  

Didn't a large percentage of his strikeouts happen early in spring training?

 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't a large percentage of his strikeouts happen early in spring training?

 

5 of his first 7 PA, I think someone said.  How many were vs. lefties, I don’t know.  

[Osornot]

IMO 

I think Nevin, Wong or Maton see OD.

McKenna probably has the best chance IF they don't find anyone better - opt-out or waiver.  

Maybe we get another Super April with Mateo (tongue firmly planted)?

Holliday comes up soon if he starts hot in AAA.

Question - When can the O's select Holliday's contract? Before OD? 

 

[maybenxtyr]

I know that a lot of the chat has been about Holliday not making the roster, and rightfully so considering he's the number 1 prospect, but my problem with the cuts goes beyond that. 

 

There was a lot of really young talented players reassigned yesterday in what seems as an effort to find a spot for players like Nevin, McKenna and possibly others. Most of the demoted guys are still relatively young, but there are a few that are really starting to cut into any opportunities that they may have to reach a decent shot at a ML career. Some of which would be redundant on the current roster, but that shouldn't eliminate the front office from trying to make a trade that would benefit the team and the players.

 

It's hard to justify keeping some AAAA a player when you have better options in-house. Anyhow, I hope it works out for the best because the window is open and they need to get after it while they have guys like Henderson and Rutschman under team control.