Jackson Holliday 2024

[emmett16]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It’s just a different take not a terrible one. What does being 3rd favorite to win ROY get you?  Kjerstad has passed Cowser for me. I still love Cowser. He’s an O.

Be honest… how much does the milkman and cow nipple gimmick come into play here?

Zero.  Again, he’s 4th in all of MLB in OAA, has a 116OPS+ and anyone can see he’s hit into a ton of bad luck.  His statcast #s are elite.  I think you are making emotional decisions and letting a few bad games cloud your judgement.  Kjerstad came onto the scene with a bang, but doesn’t provide the all around benefits that Cowser does.  I think Kjerstad is fantastic.  I want both of them + Mayo on the roster.

 

Edited July 5 by emmett16

[Big Mac]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’d take Holliday, and Mayo, to out OPS Cowser the rest of the season. 

Again, I root for Cowser, but if we could sell high on him for a starter with control, then I’d listen. 

If we don’t go the rental route for SP, the Cowser, Stowers, and Norby, is a pretty good first offer. Maybe that’s in the ballpark of everyone’s favorite Crochet. Maybe include DeLeon, McDermott, or Baumeister. 

I think if we were to sell high on Cowser that would more likely happen in the offseason, I don't think the team wants Mullins as the only realistic CF option in the organization for the rest of the season. 

[Rbiggs2525]

Hate when threads get derailed. Cowser vs whoever seems it should be discussed in Cowser thread or trade.

[emmett16]

57 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm going to disagree because I don't think hit for average is considered an "elite athlete" tool. 

Elly De La Cruz is an elite athlete, so was Bubba Starling.  Mateo is an Elite athlete.

You can be an elite athlete and still not be a good ML player.

 

I think of an elite athlete as something different entirely.  And I think that’s Frobby’s point.  
 

I think of an elite athlete as someone that can easily & efficiently use their body to achieve an end goal.  Being able to manipulate their body and other implements to accomplish a specific task.  Be able to repeat that skill and adapt easily to changes in the environment.  Someone that has incredible balance, space awareness, timing, and hand eye coordination.  Someone who would thrive when thrown in any athletic environment they are put in.  
 

To me it has nothing to do with speed, strength, or ability to jump. However, someone that is fast, jumps high, and is strong and who also can control their body et al would be the 1% elite elite.  IE. Gunnar (if you’ve seen him play other sports, he does it easily).
 

If I had to guess Mateo probably can’t shoot a basketball and would be a terrible ping pong player.  Just a guess watching him hit.  
 

Not arguing or saying you are wrong, just how I define it. 

[Conway12]

Saw this floating around Twitter. Wasn't sure if this deserved it's own thread and I quite honestly don't believe the rumor. But, I thought it was interesting enough to share. 

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2024/07/10/pirates-brewers-bryan-reynolds-rowdy-tellez-joey-bart-grand-slam-mlb-column-recap-dk

 

Quote

Fact: I was told over the weekend by a high-ranking American League executive that, at some point in 2024, the Orioles approached the Pirates about a trade of elite prospects, one that'd send Jared Jones to Baltimore and 20-year-old infielder Jackson Holliday to Pittsburgh. I was further told that it was Ben Cherington who backed off. And as the opening sentence of this paragraph suggests, I've got no idea when within this year it occurred. Only that it did.

 

[Can_of_corn]

That can't be true because hitters are so much more valuable than pitchers because pitchers get hurt and stuff.

 

No idea to what degree it is true but thanks for sharing it.

[interloper]

Yeah it feels like there is starting to be some smoke around Holliday, in terms of how the organization views him. There are enough yellow flags in his batting profile that I think they would consider moving him in the right deal. 

Still rate it as highly unlikely though since he's so young and it would take a rare blockbuster. 

[jamalshw]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yeah it feels like there is starting to be some smoke around Holliday, in terms of how the organization views him. There are enough yellow flags in his batting profile that I think they would consider moving him in the right deal. 

Still rate it as highly unlikely though since he's so young and it would take a rare blockbuster. 

I'm not sure there's much differentiation in the organization's rankings of Mayo, Holliday and Basallo. They're lumped together and I wouldn't be surprised if you told me Elias and Sig prefer Mayo or Basallo (or both) to Holliday. That said, I WOULD be surprised if you told me they view him significantly lower. The fact that Henderson and Westburg have proven themselves as All-Star level infielders (including defensively) minimizes the need for a SS type prospect over a bigger slugger with a much more limited defensive profile. 

Holliday is more the 5-tool type player amongst the three, but the bat is likely superior--or at least as good--in the other two. If the industry perception allows Holliday to net more (or require fewer other pieces in a huge deal, then it may make sense to move on from him. 

All said, I'm adamantly against moving any of those three UNLESS the name Skubal is included. 

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yeah it feels like there is starting to be some smoke around Holliday, in terms of how the organization views him. There are enough yellow flags in his batting profile that I think they would consider moving him in the right deal. 

Still rate it as highly unlikely though since he's so young and it would take a rare blockbuster. 

What smoke is there?

[OriolesMagic83]

Interesting if Elias did try to trade Jackson for Jared Jones.  Pittsburgh has a ridiculous collection of arm talent in Skenes, Jones and Keller.

[LookitsPuck]

11 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Interesting if Elias did try to trade Jackson for Jared Jones.  Pittsburgh has a ridiculous collection of arm talent in Skenes, Jones and Keller.

I'd be shocked if the Pirates deal any of their young arms regardless of whether Holliday was in the deal. The Pirates are a reasonably decent team, and even though I'm not terribly high on Termarr Johnson, they're not desperate for a 2B w/ SS upside. What they do have is an embarrassment of riches in the SP category like you mentioned. Not just Skenes, Jones, and Keller, but they also have Bubba Chandler who is a lock to be a Hall of Famer just because of the name alone, but also Harrington and Ashcraft. 

I reckon they'd be more likely to deal from their non-MLB arms and not Jones. There's good reason why Cherington balked at it. Jones is amazing. 

[vab]

Jones for Holliday seems pretty equitable - elite young arm for an elite young bat. That was the idea behind loading up on position player talent in the draft, right? Westburg takes over 2nd, Mayo to 3rd. Not saying I'd be shopping Jackson but for these big-time young SPs with 3-4 years of control you have to look at it. 

[RZNJ]

I don’t believe it.

[CTBear]

If we trade Holliday, it’s not necessarily that we value him less than Mayo and/or Basallo. I think it’s just that his value is greater elsewhere than it is in Baltimore because we already have Gunnar at SS. Both are Boras clients too so it’s not like either would be easy to extend. 

[Winter]

2 minutes ago, vab said:

Jones for Holliday seems pretty equitable - elite young arm for an elite young bat. That was the idea behind loading up on position player talent in the draft, right? Westburg takes over 2nd, Mayo to 3rd. Not saying I'd be shopping Jackson but for these big-time young SPs with 3-4 years of control you have to look at it. 

You all can just stop with the Jones rumor, Jones is on the IL with a Lat injury, Elias isn't trading the top prospect in baseball for a guy who might not even pitch this year again for the Pirates if they fall out of contention in the next month. The last update on Jones is the Pirates GM saying he's out "Weeks not days" doesn't sounds like the guy you trade your top prospect for.