What happens next? Mayo debut or Holliday back up?

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I love Holliday’s talent. I truly do. But I am rooting for all of the players that don the Orange & Black. I don’t see a need to turn them into rivals or competitors. They are all representing or are going to represent the same franchise.

Mayo is not a better 3B than Westburg. He just isn’t and it’s not all that close. But Mayo’s bat could help us at some point this year, especially given that he hits from the right side. 

In your opinion, if Mayo were to come up and find success offensively right away (which is a rarity in the current game of baseball) but struggles defensively, (which is very possibility given his short comings at 3B) what would you do? Or what if he struggles offensively like so many of our prospects have done, then what do you do? 

Last scenario, if he does great on both sides of the ball, what do you do with Holliday for the rest of this season and long term?

If Mayo comes up, Urias is still here. Hays and Mayo here.  McKenna and Kjerstad down.   If Mayo is unplayable at 3B because of defense but he’s raking, he either goes down or gets worked into the RF/DH mix.   If he doesn’t hit but the fielding is adequate he gets a long leash unless it’s Holliday epically bad.   
 

Lastly, if Mayo is great on both sides of the ball here are some options with Holliday.   He can replace Urias as a backup at 3B and 2B or he can put up numbers at Norfolk.

Longterm.  Experiment with Holliday in CF.  He’s got the speed for it and a better arm than Cedric.  If he takes to it, he could replace Mullins as soon as next year.  You could attempt the same thing with Westburg.  Or you could put Holliday at 2B and make Westburg an everyday backup who plays all over.   Or you could trade one of them.

I would lean towards the CF experiment for Holliday.   Kills two birds with one stone.

[Bemorewins]

27 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

If Mayo comes up, Urias is still here. Hays and Mayo here.  McKenna and Kjerstad down.   If Mayo is unplayable at 3B because of defense but he’s raking, he either goes down or gets worked into the RF/DH mix.   If he doesn’t hit but the fielding is adequate he gets a long leash unless it’s Holliday epically bad.   
 

Lastly, if Mayo is great on both sides of the ball here are some options with Holliday.   He can replace Urias as a backup at 3B and 2B or he can put up numbers at Norfolk.

Longterm.  Experiment with Holliday in CF.  He’s got the speed for it and a better arm than Cedric.  If he takes to it, he could replace Mullins as soon as next year.  You could attempt the same thing with Westburg.  Or you could put Holliday at 2B and make Westburg an everyday backup who plays all over.   Or you could trade one of them.

I would lean towards the CF experiment for Holliday.   Kills two birds with one stone.

Holliday was just adjusting to 2B (and still had his bugaboos there), now you want him moved to CF? You must not be amongst the many who really believe that he is a special talent? You would move the number one rated prospect in the sport out of the infield and to a position that he has never played in his life before?

Let get this one straight, was there one scenario where Mayo and/or Holliday would be back ups? Did you have one where one of if not the best hitter on the team (Westburg) becomes a backup?

You must really believe in Mayo’s talent and think that he is underrated by most evaluators?

It sounds like you are the president of the Mayo fan club.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Holliday was just adjusting to 2B (and still had his bugaboos there), now you want him moved to CF? You must not be amongst the many who really believe that he is a special talent? You would move the number one rated prospect in the sport out of the infield and to a position that he has never played in his life before?

Let get this one straight, was there one scenario where Mayo and/or Holliday would be back ups? Did you have one where one of if not the best hitter on the team (Westburg) becomes a backup?

You must really believe in Mayo’s talent and think that he is underrated by most evaluators?

It sounds like you are the president of the Mayo fan club.

You asked what would happen if Mayo was really good offensively and defensively.  I gave one scenario where Holliday sticks at 2B.  I neglected the Mayo to RF scenario where Holliday stays at 2B.  In my preferred Holliday to CF, I added “if he takes to it”.

You may have Holliday penciled into the HOF.  I’m dealing in a meritocracy where Mayo and Westburg aren’t exactly chopped liver.   If Mayo and Westburg are all-star caliber players at 3B and 2B, then hell yeah, I’d consider trying Holliday in CF but it’s not the only option.

I’m not president of anyone’s fan club.  I’m president of “whoever performs the best” fan club.   

[Say O!]

IMO we will see a move by June 1st for either Holliday or Mayo (maybe both) as the O’s schedule June to all-Star break is tough as nails. 

Edited May 3 by Say O!

[ChuckS]

They will be cautious with Holliday now.  I am sure they would hate to have to send him down a second time.  I'm thinking mid-season for Holliday if all goes well in Norfolk.  If he struggles down there, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, it could be delayed further. 

Mayo is destroying the ball and should get the call next.  There is a spot for him at third with Westburg moving to second. 

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You asked what would happen if Mayo was really good offensively and defensively.  I gave one scenario where Holliday sticks at 2B.  I neglected the Mayo to RF scenario where Holliday stays at 2B.  In my preferred Holliday to CF, I added “if he takes to it”.

You may have Holliday penciled into the HOF.  I’m dealing in a meritocracy where Mayo and Westburg aren’t exactly chopped liver.   If Mayo and Westburg are all-star caliber players at 3B and 2B, then hell yeah, I’d consider trying Holliday in CF but it’s not the only option.

I’m not president of anyone’s fan club.  I’m president of “whoever performs the best” fan club.   

No, I don't have Holliday penciled into the HOF. I never said that. What I said is that I believe in his talent. I don't think that many people got it wrong in his evaluation. 

I also don't believe that Mayo's defense is anywhere close to good enough to be an All-star caliber 3B. But I do believe that is possible (maybe even very for Westburg).

I'm not sure that professional sports is a meritocracy. In that the more talent/ability that you have, the more opportunities that you will get. That probably explains why Holliday got the first crack at the Bigs over Norby (and even Mayo to a degree). 

Last thing, right now Mateo is performing best at the other INF spot (second best). Do you want him to stay/get more playing time right now?

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

No, I don't have Holliday penciled into the HOF. I never said that. What I said is that I believe in his talent. I don't think that many people got it wrong in his evaluation. 

I also don't believe that Mayo's defense is anywhere close to good enough to be an All-star caliber 3B. But I do believe that is possible (maybe even very for Westburg).

I'm not sure that professional sports is a meritocracy. In that the more talent/ability that you have, the more opportunities that you will get. That probably explains why Holliday got the first crack at the Bigs over Norby (and even Mayo to a degree). 

Last thing, right now Mateo is performing best at the other INF spot (second best). Do you want him to stay/get more playing time right now?

Now we’re on to Mateo.  Nope.  My turn to ask the question.   If Mayo comes up and is average defensively at 3B and puts up an .800+ OPS at 3B and Westburg continues to hit and plays 2B what do you do with Holliday short term and long term?

”Last scenario, if he does great on both sides of the ball, what do you do with Holliday for the rest of this season and long term?”

Edited May 3 by RZNJ

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Now we’re on to Mateo.  Nope.  My turn to ask the question.   If Mayo comes up and is average defensively at 3B and puts up an .800+ OPS at 3B and Westburg continues to hit and plays 2B what do you do with Holliday short term and long term?

”Last scenario, if he does great on both sides of the ball, what do you do with Holliday for the rest of this season and long term?”

Honestly, if you are asking me what I would do. I play Mateo more right now because he is outperforming Urias. I would also, give Mayo some time in RF at AAA. And I would leave Holliday down at AAA as well. I wouldn't feel rushed to make a move right now and I would probably reevaluate things some time in June.

I would not recall Holliday until he has had at least 60 days (2 months time at AAA) and he would have to be mashing at that time and shown that he has worked on the things that they have asked him. 

I would not bring up Mayo until he has had adequate time to adjust to the OF.

To answer your question, I would not bring up Mayo to play 3B. It creates an unnecessary problem for you both now and later. If the O's are not planning to trade Mayo (which I hope they don't), the most likely scenario is that he is going to move out of the infield because his defense is not good enough.

Lastly, if by June/ early July Santander hasn't picked it up, then I would give Mayo or Kjerstad a serious look in RF. The reason that I say RF for Mayo is that he has a very strong arm and pretty decent mobility for a guy his size, but I don't think that the glove is good enough for the INF at a high level in the Major Leagues.

I also, wouldn't expect Mayo/Holliday/Cowser/Kjerstad to put up an .800+ OPS in their first go round in the Major Leagues. I don't think that is a realistic expectation at all for a guy making the jump for the first time.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Honestly, if you are asking me what I would do. I play Mateo more right now because he is outperforming Urias. I would also, give Mayo some time in RF at AAA. And I would leave Holliday down at AAA as well. I wouldn't feel rushed to make a move right now and I would probably reevaluate things some time in June.

I would not recall Holliday until he has had at least 60 days (2 months time at AAA) and he would have to be mashing at that time and shown that he has worked on the things that they have asked him. 

I would not bring up Mayo until he has had adequate time to adjust to the OF.

To answer your question, I would not bring up Mayo to play 3B. It creates an unnecessary problem for you both now and later. If the O's are not planning to trade Mayo (which I hope they don't), the most likely scenario is that he is going to move out of the infield because his defense is not good enough.

Lastly, if by June/ early July Santander hasn't picked it up, then I would give Mayo or Kjerstad a serious look in RF. The reason that I say RF for Mayo is that he has a very strong arm and pretty decent mobility for a guy his size, but I don't think that the glove is good enough for the INF at a high level in the Major Leagues.

I also, wouldn't expect Mayo/Holliday/Cowser/Kjerstad to put up an .800+ OPS in their first go round in the Major Leagues. I don't think that is a realistic expectation at all for a guy making the jump for the first time.

Are you another one of these guys who can’t answer a simple question.  Your own question.  If Mayo comes up and plays 3B well defensively and does well offensively, what do you do with Holliday short term and long term?

You asked me and I answered.  I asked you the same question and I noticed you wrote about a lot of other things but, unless I missed it, you didn’t even attempt to answer that question which, again, was your own question.

[OriolesMagic83]

I don't think either of them are coming up until near the All-Star break.  Elias history is that he is not DFAing players that he sees as valuable.  This includes players like Mateo and Urias, like it or hate it.  Also if Urias/Mateo is DFA'ed/traded and Mayo is brough up, that makes Mayo a utility player who can't play 2b or SS.  I think Holliday is more likely to come up 1st because he is more of a replacement for Urias/Mateo.  I think Urias will be the one to go.  Someone from 1B/DH/RF needs to be traded for Mayo to get anything other than once or twice a week playing time. 

[RZNJ]

Just now, OriolesMagic83 said:

I don't think either of them are coming up until near the All-Star break.  Elias history is that he is not DFAing players that he sees as valuable.  This includes players like Mateo and Urias, like it or hate it.  Also if Urias/Mateo is DFA'ed/traded and Mayo is brough up, that makes Mayo a utility player who can't play 2b or SS.  I think Holliday is more likely to come up 1st because he is more of a replacement for Urias/Mateo.  I think Urias will be the one to go.  Someone from 1B/DH/RF needs to be traded for Mayo to get anything other than once or twice a week playing time. 

No one would be DFA except McKenna.  Urias and Mateo were both bench players when Plan A was Holliday.  Same difference.  Hays and Mayo added.  McKenna DFA and probably unclaimed again and Kjerstad optioned.

[Bemorewins]

46 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Are you another one of these guys who can’t answer a simple question.  Your own question.  If Mayo comes up and plays 3B well defensively and does well offensively, what do you do with Holliday short term and long term?

You asked me and I answered.  I asked you the same question and I noticed you wrote about a lot of other things but, unless I missed it, you didn’t even attempt to answer that question which, again, was your own question.

I'm not sure. That's why I wouldn't do it. You would have a real problem on your hands. You would most likely have to trade somebody.

I'm not advocating for Mayo (or Holliday to come up right now). But I was pointing out through the questions the problem that could be created.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

I'm not sure. That's why I wouldn't do it. You would have a real problem on your hands. You would most likely have to trade somebody.

I'm not advocating for Mayo (or Holliday to come up right now). But I was pointing out through the questions the problem that could be created.

It’s a problem if Mayo comes up to play 3B and is good both offensively and defensively?

As an Oriole fan that wants his team to do well, give me those types of problems.   

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

It’s a problem if Mayo comes up to play 3B and is good both offensively and defensively?

As an Oriole fan that wants his team to do well, give me those types of problems.   

Ok, to each their own. I don't agree with you but I respect your opinion.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Ok, to each their own. I don't agree with you but I respect your opinion.

That’s good because your opinion makes no sense.  If Mayo comes up and is good both ways that’s a good thing.  Period.   You’re more concerned with how it affects Hollidays career than whether it helps the team win this year.

And by the way, I answered your three pronged hypothetical on Mayo and gave multiple options on what might happen if Mayo was an all around above average 3B.  You seemed aghast at 1) Westburg being an everyday utility guy and 2) experimenting with Holliday in CF.    Easy to criticize but then when confronted with your own hypothetical your answer is “I don’t know”.  LOL.      That’s weak.