Jazz Chisolm Trade?

[DrungoHazewood]

5 minutes ago, Philip said:

And to @Frobby, I don’t think it’s just semantics to discuss the difference between somebody playing better than us, and us playing worse than them. If they win 108 and 105, many people here, including me, and maybe even including you, will complain about meaningful moves not being made soon enough. Games count, even in April.

Remember, sometimes you do everything right and lose anyway, and that’s OK. If they play better than we do, they deserve to win. But if we don’t address obvious issues and fall away so that they win, that will be a disappointment, even if the final is 108-105.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if the O's win 105 and the Yanks 108, I'll tip my cap to them, and be happy the Orioles won the most games they had since 1970, and 26th-most in all of Major League history. Almost by definition you can't claim a team didn't do enough and yet still won 105 games.

The 2021 Dodgers are the only team in history to have won 105+ games and didn't finish first. And they beat the team they finished behind in the NLDS.

[HowAboutThat]

56 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

On May 31st, 1980 the Yankees were 28-16, 4.5 games ahead of the 2nd place Brewers and 7.0 games ahead of the 22-24 Orioles. The Orioles were coming off a Division Championship and an AL Pennant, having gone to the 1979 World Series. They were the favorites to win the Division once again, but were under .500 as they went into June.

Mark Belanger was hitting .172 with a .380 OPS, and was 36 years old. Ken Singleton was hitting .238. Reigning Cy Young winner Mike Flanagan was 5-3, 3.78... meh. Kiko Garcia was playing almost everyday and hitting .162. Rich Dauer had a .611 OPS. Closer Tim Stoddard had three blown saves already. After leading the league in innings in '79, Dennis Martinez had pitched in just six games so far with an 8.22 ERA.

Clearly this is a team with some holes, some problems. And they had a few guys on the farm they could have dealt for help, like Cal Ripken (25 homers in AA that year), Mike Boddicker (2.18 ERA in AAA), Drungo Hazewood (28 homers in AA).

You know what they did to get back on track and try to catch the streaking Yankees, while ending up with 100 wins? Not a single thing. Literally, the entire season, they didn't make a single transaction that had an impact on the Major League roster. They made one trade, and neither player they received in the deal ever played for the major league Orioles.

What they did is trusted the decisions they'd made in the past, in the offseason, and in the spring. They had a very solid team, and they let the players work through problems. And they won 100 games, 2nd best in all of Major League baseball. Sure, in 1980 that meant no postseason, but they had a plan to win as many games as they could and they stuck to it. And they continued to have a very, very good team for the next three years, at least in part because nobody panicked, nobody traded Cal or Boddicker or anybody else.

In their World Championship season in '83 they stuck to the same plan: they made one minor trade (Rayford for Landrum) the whole year. Despite being in 3rd place on May 31st.

The easy answer to that is that this isn’t 1980, which is true. Every season is unique to itself and doesn’t really apply to another. What would have happened if the 1980 team had made some moves? What moves? What result? Because we’ll never know anything except what was done and what did happen(100 wins, no playoffs) it’s useless to compare. 
This is now.

An additional answer is that we have so many valuable prospects we could deal three of our top ten and hardly miss them. As much as I enjoy following Ortiz, it doesn’t bother me a flip that he’s gone.

I want to win as many games as possible. 
for the umpeenth time, I’m not advocating any desperation moves, like Erod for Miller, nor stupid moves like Davies for Parra, nor meaningless moves, like Brault/Tarpley for Snyder.

But it’s clear that this team right now has needs, those needs have cost us wins, and they should be addressed.

 

[HowAboutThat]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but if the O's win 105 and the Yanks 108, I'll tip my cap to them, and be happy the Orioles won the most games they had since 1970, and 26th-most in all of Major League history. Almost by definition you can't claim a team didn't do enough and yet still won 105 games.

The 2021 Dodgers are the only team in history to have won 105+ games and didn't finish first. And they beat the team they finished behind in the NLDS.

Well, if we win 105, and lose to a 106 win team, I’ll be happy, but also thinking about the bullpen use and how it cost us those extra games. And I won’t be the only one doing so.

but there lots of time tween now and then. The OP was about getting position players, and this has been a big tangent. I don’t think we need any position players, but if we get one good and cheap that’s ok, though rather like importing sand into the Sahara.

But I’d love some pitching.

[Can_of_corn]

Erod for Miller wasn't a desperation move.  That team already had a good pen.

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know what they did to get back on track and try to catch the streaking Yankees, while ending up with 100 wins? Not a single thing. Literally, the entire season, they didn't make a single transaction that had an impact on the Major League roster. They made one trade, and neither player they received in the deal ever played for the major league Orioles.

Its funny because during the off day I had my first look at the 1980 Orioles and Yankees transactions logs on B-Ref, and can vouch that Hank Peters did not a single thing.     Dan Graham was the lone significant new 1980 Oriole acquired early in the offseason, and helped the club to a much better catcher WAA than the '79 AL champs had.

In August the Yankees acquired Aurelio Rodriguez to cover Graig Nettles' hepatitis illness and traded for Gaylord Perry.

Perry beat the Orioles 4-1 in his Yankees debut on August 16th before 51,648 at Memorial Stadium.

It rates something on the Jeff Ballard scale that old Rudy May had about 5 of his 20 career WAR in a 16-year career that season.    He'd never be much good again to anyone after 1980.

Edited May 31 by Just Regular

[DrungoHazewood]

43 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

In August the Yankees acquired Aurelio Rodriguez to cover Graig Nettles' hepatitis illness and traded for Gaylord Perry.

Perry beat the Orioles 4-1 in his Yankees debut on August 16th before 51,648 at Memorial Stadium.

That seems like a very 1980s Yankee move. What's the biggest name we can get for the stretch drive? Perry went 4-4, 4.44 in 50 innings, never pitched in the postseason, and became a free agent.

Related observation: Perry pitched 22 years in the majors, two Cy Youngs, 314 wins, is in the Hall. He played in two postseason games, both in the 1971 NLCS.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Erod for Miller wasn't a desperation move.  That team already had a good pen.

Agreed. I had big reservations about that move, for that reason.  The need for a top bullpen arm is more clear this time.