This Just In - Cuts - Pauley clears waivers

[bluedog]

Well Montanez obviously thought he was in a competition, which he should have been. Perhaps had Pie not been brought in, Luis would be in LF or at DH instead of Pie taking his roster spot.

And when you've outplayed somebody that's brought in to take your job and the GM just gives it to him anyway, that can be a little frustrating I would think. It makes you wonder why you busted your ass I imagine...

Luis has had to work hard to get to the majors and in back in Trembley's good graces. He does everything the team wants him to do and then gets beaten out by a guy who he outplayed just because he's a pet project of the GM. That's not fair, but Pie's talent ceiling apparently trumps on field performance.

Hopefully Pie will justify this injustice this season...

This is getting really old.

Pie's on field performance over his career is FAR FAR better than Lou's. There is no injustice except for the fact that you continue to ignore 7 years of excellent minor league play by Pie and 8 years of mediocre play by Montanez in your daily diatribes on the subject.

Getting a handfull more hits than another player in 60 or so grapefruit league games does not trump nearly a decade of superior minor league play.

I really doubt that Lou Montanez or Felix Pie see this as an injustice. No one (other than you) ever suggested there was a competition for the starting LF spot. It has been apparent from the moment that Pie was acquired that he would get most of the 2009 season as the starting LF to determine whether or not he's the long term solution for the O's in that position. AM never suggested anything different to the press and I really doubt he ever suggested anything different to the players.

If there is an injustice around here, its you continually berating Andy MacPhail for treating Montanez unfairly. Isn't AM the guy responsible for promoting Montantez to the majors last season and giving him his first shot at the bigs?

If you think that AM has anything but the best interests in mind for Montanez, you are wildly mistaken. Montanez is potentially a valuable piece of the O's future and MacPhail has repeatedly shown that he puts great value on young players with upside.

So stop whining about this, it's getting old for the 2/3rds of OH fans who agree that Pie should obviously be the starting LF for the O's to start this season.

[JTrea81]

This is getting really old.

Pie's on field performance over his career is FAR FAR better than Lou's. There is no injustice except for the fact that you continue to ignore 7 years of excellent minor league play by Pie and 8 years of mediocre play by Montanez in your daily diatribes on the subject.

Getting a handfull more hits than another player in 60 or so grapefruit league games does not trump nearly a decade of superior minor league play.

I really doubt that Lou Montanez or Felix Pie see this as an injustice. No one (other than you) ever suggested there was a competition for the starting LF spot. It has been apparent from the moment that Pie was acquired that he would get most of the 2009 season as the starting LF to determine whether or not he's the long term solution for the O's in that position. AM never suggested anything different to the press and I really doubt he ever suggested anything different to the players.

If there is an injustice around here, its you continually berating Andy MacPhail for treating Montanez unfairly. Isn't AM the guy responsible for promoting Montantez to the majors last season and giving him his first shot at the bigs?

If you think that AM has anything but the best interests in mind for Montanez, you are wildly mistaken. Montanez is potentially a valuable piece of the O's future and MacPhail has repeatedly shown that he puts great value on young players with upside.

So stop whining about this, it's getting old for the 2/3rds of OH fans who agree that Pie should obviously be the starting LF for the O's to start this season.

Montanez's quotes all spring all show that he thought this was a competition and that just because you were a "name" didn't mean you deserved a spot, and I agree with him.

I will always defend the Scott Moores and Luis Montanez's because they may not be top prospects, but they work their tails off and they've performed during ST and that is something that should be valued. They have earned their shot but will have to suffer in the minors needlessly just because they aren't a veteran or a former top prospect despite them outplaying both kinds of players.

Nothing upsets me more than players making the team that haven't earned it. Pie might be coming around but if he's still struggling in July and Reimold and/or Montanez are setting the world on fire in Norfolk, I expect the switch to be made.

[Miller192]

This is getting really old.

Pie's on field performance over his career is FAR FAR better than Lou's. There is no injustice except for the fact that you continue to ignore 7 years of excellent minor league play by Pie and 8 years of mediocre play by Montanez in your daily diatribes on the subject.

Getting a handfull more hits than another player in 60 or so grapefruit league games does not trump nearly a decade of superior minor league play.

I really doubt that Lou Montanez or Felix Pie see this as an injustice. No one (other than you) ever suggested there was a competition for the starting LF spot. It has been apparent from the moment that Pie was acquired that he would get most of the 2009 season as the starting LF to determine whether or not he's the long term solution for the O's in that position. AM never suggested anything different to the press and I really doubt he ever suggested anything different to the players.

If there is an injustice around here, its you continually berating Andy MacPhail for treating Montanez unfairly. Isn't AM the guy responsible for promoting Montantez to the majors last season and giving him his first shot at the bigs?

If you think that AM has anything but the best interests in mind for Montanez, you are wildly mistaken. Montanez is potentially a valuable piece of the O's future and MacPhail has repeatedly shown that he puts great value on young players with upside.

So stop whining about this, it's getting old for the 2/3rds of OH fans who agree that Pie should obviously be the starting LF for the O's to start this season.

Than put him on ignore.

As much as JTrea overreacts on certain things, I like reading his posts. While I disagree with his stance from time to time I think he has made some good points.

He tries to justify his position with evidence and while I disagree with it, he generates a good discussion.

I've learned alot from a stats standpoint from reading discussions involving JTrea's posts.

[JTrea81]

Way to ignore the larger issue.

Please just answer two simple questions:

Would you expose Pie to waivers and risk losing him so that you could keep Montanez on the 25 man roster? If so, why?

Yes I'd dump Pie and let Reimold and Montanez fight it out for the LF job over the last few weeks. Both of them could equal or exceed the production of Pie offensively IMO and that would make up for what ever marginal increase Pie would be over those two defensively. Luke Scott was one of the best defensive LFers in the league last season, so Pie will have to be just about the best to be an improvement.

Olson has been destroyed this ST, so Pie for Olson just seems like a wash at this point. We tried something and it didn't work out, but we did find out that we have two options in LF that will be even better and are ready to help the team now.

[markpolis]

Yes I'd dump Pie and let Reimold and Montanez fight it out for the LF job over the last few weeks. Both of them could equal or exceed the production of Pie offensively IMO and that would make up for what ever marginal increase Pie would be over those two defensively. Luke Scott was one of the best defensive LFers in the league last season, so Pie will have to be just about the best to be an improvement.

We can all be very, very thankful you aren't running the team.

And your comment about Luke Scott being one of the best defensive LFer's last season... well, I won't even touch that one. :rofl:

[JTrea81]

And your comment about Luke Scott being one of the best defensive LFer's last season... well, I won't even touch that one. :rofl:

From the Fielding Bible site:

<img src=http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-08.gif></img>

[Sports Guy]

We can all be very, very thankful you aren't running the team.

And your comment about Luke Scott being one of the best defensive LFer's last season... well, I won't even touch that one. :rofl:

He was...and he was in the NL as well.

But yes, the Pie stuff is a joke.

[PaulFolk]

Olson has been destroyed this ST, so Pie for Olson just seems like a wash at this point. We tried something and it didn't work out, but we did find out that we have two options in LF that will be even better and are ready to help the team now.

Felix Pie has literally not had a regular-season at-bat for the Orioles.

What "didn't work out"?

[bluedog]

Montanez's quotes all spring all show that he thought this was a competition and that just because you were a "name" didn't mean you deserved a spot, and I agree with him.

I will always defend the Scott Moores and Luis Montanez's because they may not be top prospects, but they work their tails off and they've performed during ST and that is something that should be valued. They have earned their shot but will have to suffer in the minors needlessly just because they aren't a veteran or a former top prospect despite them outplaying both kinds of players.

Nothing upsets me more than players making the team that haven't earned it. Pie might be coming around but if he's still struggling in July and Reimold and/or Montanez are setting the world on fire in Norfolk, I expect the switch to be made.

Montanez was in competition for a bench spot, not for the starting LF spot. I never saw anything from Andy MacPhail that indicated that LF was up for grabs. If Montanez didn't get that, it's his fault, not AMs.

I was one of the biggest proponents of Montanez last year and I still love the kid. He did nothing this spring to diminish his status as a potential starter with the O's later this year or next year. But he has not performed better than Pie over his career. Pie has earned the shot with the O's through his repeated and consistent dominance at AAA over the past three years.

As for Moore - he was a disaster last year at Norfolk. How are you able to ignore his performance there and somehow claim he's earned a spot with the O's because of 50 - 60 spring training at bats when he'd have to the make the team at the expense of Mora or Wigginton - both proven ML hitters?

Moore needs to put together a solid season at AAA this year. If he does, he'll have a shot to win a job next year assuming Mora is gone.

[Sports Guy]

Aren't you the one who said ST is meaningless and that Penn should be in the rotation regardless? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yea....I would still put him in the rotation right now but I have no issues with him in the pen.

I am a little disappointed in him this spring...He didn't grab the chance that was given to him and that is disheartening.

I would still out him in the rotation over Eaton, Hendrickson and Simon but at this point, a "punishment" to the pen wouldn't bother me since he hasn't made the most of what was given to him.

[Sports Guy]

Are you being stubborn or just nuts?

Putting Penn in the rotation at this point to have his brains bashed in would serve absolutely no purpose at all right now. I think he has a chance of being salvaged if treated properly out of the bullpen. Right now I'm not sure if that's even 50/50 but I'd still be leery of putting him on waivers.

And the others won't get their brains beat in?

[Sports Guy]

Some of your statements are just so clueless they don't deserve a response. I responded anyway. If Pie should turn into a good player it will just be another case of you being WRONG.

And even if Pie flops, Jtrea will still be wrong.

[JTrea81]

He was...and he was in the NL as well.

Right you are, here's the 2006-2008 leaders, look who is near the top:

<img src=http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-0608.gif></img>

And Pie's defensive rankings aren't exactly all that stelllar. He's above average but he's not the GGer people think he is:

Case in point:

<img src=http://thebigo.mvpmods.com/pie.jpg></img>

Pie's defensive stats in the minors from minorleaguesplits.com using Total Zone.

+10 is very good, +15 is stellar (which Pie is supposedly) and -10 and below is bad...

For giggles, let's take a look at Scott's and Montanez's minor league stats:

Scott

<img src=http://thebigo.mvpmods.com/scott.jpg></img>

Montanez

<img src=http://thebigo.mvpmods.com/montanez.jpg></img>

Looks like Montanez's defense has been underrated this past season while Pie's has been overrated IMO...

[HoodGuy007]

And Luis Montanez would be on the ML roster most likely after earning a spot in ST.

And we would be left with a worse outfield defense and a gy who might hit at an Oscar Salazar level in the majors. Whoopdeedo.

[tvz1997]

And the others won't get their brains beat in?

I truly do respect your opinion on the Penn situation, but the "how much worse can he be than Eaton?" argument always amuses me. It's the 2008 Orioles shortstop argument for who should be a major league baseball player.