Trading for Tarik Skubal

[OriolesMagic83]

44 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

There's other pitchers out there if this takes a Soto-like return.  Elias won't pay that.  He didn't overpay for Cease in the offseason, and he pivoted to Burnes.  He's capable of trying to target more than one guy.  

Only pitcher I could see getting a Soto like return would be Skenes in 3 years if he contends for the Cy Young each year and wins at least one.  Then he would be on the level that Soto was. 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I challenged Morosi or any other Yankees “super fan” to show me the trade in which a team got back a Soto-like type compensation for ANY pitcher.

Prior to the trade, Soto had seasons of 7.1, 5.0, 3.0 and 2.4 WAR, plus 3.7 WAR at the time of the midseason trade (he finished with 5.5). Skubal is at 4.4 WAR but previous were 2.0, 1.4, and 1.7. Soto has a much stronger resume in addition to playing every day and no TJ risk. I don't think they are close to comparable.

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We will probably move on from Mountcastle after this year.  Adley and Basallo can do a 50/50 catcher split with the other DH'ing.  Holliday is the higher ranked player, and actually the one that I would prefer to move.  

Are we worried about Skubal's innings this season?  He's only 33 IP shy of his career high in 2021.  

I’m willing to take a calculated risk as opposed to continue to hedge with Flaherty ‘23 like moves. I don’t want to keep punting on the present. The opportunities may not continue to keep coming around or at least be as good in the future.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

He was actually great during spring training, then he had a really bad 34 ABs in MLB and people are concluding his career is doomed because a .900 OPS at AAA at 20 sucks after going back down.

go back and read my other post. But, whatever he sucks just like your saying.

[sportsfan8703]

15 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m willing to take a calculated risk as opposed to continue to hedge with Flaherty ‘23 like moves. I don’t want to keep punting on the present. The opportunities may not continue to keep coming around or at least be as good in the future.

Yeah, but the argument for getting Cease in the offseason was the same and we wound up with Burnes out of nowhere.  The Jays are game changers if their SPs like Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt available.  Berrios would be a heck of a get.  

[Allan Bryant]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

That could be. But would be equally egregious and potentially franchise damaging IMO. He is nowhere near accomplished enough to view in that light. And he is a pitcher, meaning the likelihood of injury is very high. Investing long term with any pitcher is not a great proposition in terms of value. The competitive teams/contenders are more apt to live with that risk given the potential rewards that can be reaped.

The Tigers on the other hand need offense in droves as their current one is not very good. Again I think they would be foolish to hang out to a player for sentimental value instead of trying to invest in the possibility of their competitive future.

Assuming the Tigers make decision (s) on Skubal and if it backfires , then they are going live with the consequences . We all know they have Skubal , the question is……will they make him available ?

[G54377]

If we can avoid Kjerstad in the deal, I'm Ok with trading whatever Elias thinks is the least valuable of:

Mayo as full time 3B (or even another position if it came to it of course)

Holliday as full time 2B

Basallo splitting catcher and DH/1B

 

I don't think Elias is OK with trading and nor should he be, Holliday/Mayo/Basallo AND Kjerstad for 2 1/2 years of Skubal. Given how rapidly Hays and Mullins have declined combined with Cowser's struggles at the plate, Kjerstad is now a fixture for the present and the future at LF/RF. I think he would need to do that trade without Kjerstad in it.

[Roll Tide]

15 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Yeah, but the argument for getting Cease in the offseason was the same and we wound up with Burnes out of nowhere.  The Jays are game changers if their SPs like Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt available.  Berrios would be a heck of a get.  

Bassit is signed through 2025, Gausman 2026, and Berrios 2028. Unless the Jays are going into total rebuild they probably are unlikely to deal Berrios of the three. 

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, G54377 said:

If we can avoid Kjerstad in the deal, I'm Ok with trading whatever Elias thinks is the least valuable of:

Mayo as full time 3B (or even another position if it came to it of course)

Holliday as full time 2B

Basallo splitting catcher and DH/1B

 

I don't think Elias is OK with trading and nor should he be, Holliday/Mayo/Basallo AND Kjerstad for 2 1/2 years of Skubal. Given how rapidly Hays and Mullins have declined combined with Cowser's struggles at the plate, Kjerstad is now a fixture for the present and the future at LF/RF. I think he would need to do that trade without Kjerstad in it.

Honestly…. I’d deal Basallo of the group. He’s surplus as they can commit to Adley. Mayo can replace Mountcastle and O’Hearn probably leaves after next year. Kjerstad goes to RF where he needs less range and replaces Santander.

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Yeah, but the argument for getting Cease in the offseason was the same and we wound up with Burnes out of nowhere.  The Jays are game changers if their SPs like Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt available.  Berrios would be a heck of a get.  

Berrios yes. Bassitt maybe. Gausman no. Gausman is a pitcher in serious decline and not having a good season at all. Is he even better than what we have? If he wasn’t a former O would you be interested at all?

[Winter]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

What’s more valuable a second catcher to split time with Adley or an all-star/Cy Young caliber pitcher?

Basallo would be able to play 1B, DH, C and be an everyday bat in the middle of the lineup? oh and he's left handed(LOL)

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, Winter said:

Basallo would be able to play 1B, DH, C and be an everyday bat in the middle of the lineup? oh and he's left handed(LOL)

Yes, he can do all of that and possibly at an all-star level. But that does not answer my question.

[sportsfan8703]

Basallo is the one of the big 3 we should least likely trade. If everyone has had a big time OPS in Norfolk, then it probably means something is up. 

[bpilktree67]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m willing to take a calculated risk as opposed to continue to hedge with Flaherty ‘23 like moves. I don’t want to keep punting on the present. The opportunities may not continue to keep coming around or at least be as good in the future.

How many teams won the trade deadline with a big time acquisitions and then won the championship.  
2023 Rangers traded for rental Montgomery a solid mid rotation guy and rental Chapman nice bullpen piece.

2022 Astros traded for Trey Mancini

2021 Braves traded for Solor, Rosario, and Duvall.  
2020 Covid year with weird deadline

2019 Nats traded for Daniel Hudson and Roenilis Ellis 

2018 Red Sox traded for Andrew Cashner 

2017 Astros traded for Justin Verlander which was a great pickup and changed there team when he bounced back but the trade itself was for very little in terms of prospects and more salary dump for rebuilding Tigers.   

2016 Cubs trade for Chapman and Mike Montgomery.  

2015 Royals traded for Johnny Cueto a veteran rental starter coming off all star season but pitched to a 4.86 ERA for Royals .  Also traded for Ben Zobrist.  

2014 Giants traded for Jake Peavy as a rental.  

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

How many teams won the trade deadline with a big time acquisitions and then won the championship.  
2023 Rangers traded for rental Montgomery a solid mid rotation guy and rental Chapman nice bullpen piece.

2022 Astros traded for Trey Mancini

2021 Braves traded for Solor, Rosario, and Duvall.  
2020 Covid year with weird deadline

2019 Nats traded for Daniel Hudson and Roenilis Ellis 

2018 Red Sox traded for Andrew Cashner 

2017 Astros traded for Justin Verlander which was a great pickup and changed there team when he bounced back but the trade itself was for very little in terms of prospects and more salary dump for rebuilding Tigers.   

2016 Cubs trade for Chapman and Mike Montgomery.  

2015 Royals traded for Johnny Cueto a veteran rental starter coming off all star season but pitched to a 4.86 ERA for Royals .  Also traded for Ben Zobrist.  

2014 Giants traded for Jake Peavy as a rental.  

And how many of those teams rotations would you trade for the one that we have currently?

In just about any/every projected playoff matchup save for the Guardians and maybe the Twins, the other team has the matchup advantage in the series. IMO those are long odds when trying to be successful in multiple rounds of the playoffs in October. Maybe you are comfortable with that? I am not.