What An Embarrassment

[scottbbfm]

Like I said before, it's easy to throw stones when you're living off the Gulf of Mexico. I know you said you come to several games a year...great. How many have you been to this season?

The bottom line is that winning begets attendance. Some loyal O's fans know that we're rebuilding and have some good pieces in place for the future but the general public sees the record -- which will be worse than last year -- and doesn't even begin to entertain going to the Orioles games in August and September, especially when the Ravens are playing games.

It's been 12 years, guys. It shouldn't shock anyone anymore when the Yanks and Sox come to town and bring their fans with them. It's been going on for years.

We all know what the problems are, the issues, why, and its no shock at all. That's nothing new.

The thing that is shocking is that the people on here, who you would think would be the leaders of Orioles Nation, flat out refuse to go to games against the yankees or red sox. They say I'll go when other people go. Its not my responsibility to do anything about it. I've got news for you: if you (anyone reading this thread) aren't going, neither is anyone else.

I'm so glad our nation wasn't built on this principle, otherwise there would be no nation, no civil rights movement, no trips to the moon. You'd probably sit in a cafe in Paris while the Germans (evil empire) marched through.*

*Obviously all that's a little extreme, but its the same principle.

[vab]

The Yankees and Red Sox have both had extended periods of suckitude and they still drew well. Not to mention the Cubs.

So what. You want to say their fans are better, go ahead but it's still unreasonable to expect people to pay hard earned money for a bad product. There's no getting around that.

[frankpembleton]

So what. You want to say their fans are better, go ahead but it's still unreasonable to expect people to pay hard earned money for a bad product. There's no getting around that.

And it's not even true. The Red Sox haven't had more than a few losing season in a row in like a half a century. The Yankees have never in their history had a stretch like the Orioles.

The Cubs have had a few stretches like the Orioles and you couldn't pay people to get out to Wrigley.

[NewMarketSean]

We all know what the problems are, the issues, why, and its no shock at all. That's nothing new.

The thing that is shocking is that the people on here, who you would think would be the leaders of Orioles Nation, flat out refuse to go to games against the yankees or red sox. They say I'll go when other people go. Its not my responsibility to do anything about it. I've got news for you: if you (anyone reading this thread) aren't going, neither is anyone else.

I'm so glad our nation wasn't built on this principle, otherwise there would be no nation, no civil rights movement, no trips to the moon. You'd probably sit in a cafe in Paris while the Germans (evil empire) marched through.*

*Obviously all that's a little extreme, but its the same principle.

How many posters are on these boards? 500? That is a drop in the bucket in a stadium full of Yankee fans. If every poster on OH went to Yankee games at OPACY we'd still be embarrassingly outnumbered by them. I also think it's safe to say the people on OH are the last of the loyal fans...there simply aren't that many of us left.

And please don't compare sports to wars and politics, etc...going to games is the same as going to an amusement park. If the rides suck and are always broken, no one is going to go.

[Hank Scorpio]

I can't believe some of you. Back in the day we OWNED Memorial Stadium. Do whatever you have to do to keep the bandwagoners out of Camden Yards. I used to go to Yankees and Sox games just to annoy them. Stand up to the Barbarians at the Gates.

The team was also generally competitive back in the day. That helps.

The answer to this problem is very simple. Once the team is competitive, "fans" will come out. Stacey said it very intelligently earlier in the thread: People don't want to pay money to go to the stadium and be miserable. Being surrounded by Yankees or Red Sox fans and watching your team get pantsed while these idiots are doing their YESPNESN chants is not enjoyable. I can't even stand to watch it on TV, frankly.

To be honest, I don't go often because I live kinda far away and it's a bit of an "event" when I am able to go. Ideally I'd like to see the team win when I go. My chances of seeing them win vs. the MFY's or Red Sox are obviously thin, and the chances of me having a good time at the stadium regardless of the score is knill when I'm surrounded by a-holes.

I'll go to a Sox or Yankee game again when the team is competitive, not before. I have enough aggravation in my life, thanks.

[Hank Scorpio]

That said, if I lived in Federal Hill or near the stadium, I'd be there all the time regardless. The main problem for me is distance.

[frankpembleton]

Steelers fans in M&T Bank stadium just goes to show you the strength of bandwagon teams. The Ravens are a competitive team with a rabid fanbase, yet hordes Steeler fans find their way into the stadium each year. Granted it's nothing like the Yanks and Sox fans in OPACY, but it happens.

Not really though. Hordes?

Steeler fans haven't had a huge presence (more than 5k or 6k out of a 71k person stadium) since Memorial Stadium. Also, those fans are generally buying from ticket brokers, not season ticket holders.

[frankpembleton]

This thread is probably a great place for Steelers fans to find Ravens fans who are willing to sell their tickets.

Like I mentioned above - judging from Steeler fans attendance at Ravens games over the last decade, not many Ravens fans are selling their tickets. Certainly nowhere near as many that do in other cities (*cough*, DC, *cough*).

[33rdst]

I don't want this to be an Angelos bash because I think he has seen the error of his ways and has put the team on the right track with Andy MacPhail. However, when you hear people say Angelos ruined the once proud franchise they are not just referring to what exist on the field. For a short period in the nineties the fans were proud of their team, proud of their city but mostly proud of the fact that we had the best damn ballpark ever. Like many of you, I was at those playoff games against the Yankees when 43,000 fans actually rooted for the O's. Boston who? They weren't even relevent. Every night 39,000, 40,000 etc would show up for a game. Sadly those days are only a distant memory.

I still have my season tickets and yes I endure going to the Yankee games. This is the price I'm paying for Angelos' sins of the past. I'm willing to pay that price because liek or not I'm still an Orioles fan and I still have hope that someday soon those seats will be filled again with orange and black.

[Mirko Crocop]

Doesn't that hurt the city of Baltimore? These fans have to buy Hotel or Motel rooms. They ahve to rent cars or take public transportation plus buy food. Thta to me is like cuting off your nose to spite your face.

I hate to lose the revenue that could better spent of garbage schools, shoddy roadways, and giftcards for children's groups (which would subsequently be kept by the Mayor).

[TiredofLosing20]

For all those using the "I'm be there when they're good" excuse, guess what? That is the shear definition of a bandwagon fan. Whether you like it or not, by saying that, that is what you have become.

I would say that virtually no one on this site at this point is a fairweather fan. The fact that we still care enough to come onto this site and post after the past decade is the very opposite of fairweather fan.

I stopped going to as many games 5 or 6 years ago. I did so not because of the losing but moreso as I saw no reason to give my hard earned money to an organization and owner that was rudderless and incompetent. I am not into rewarding bad behavior. Call me fairweather if you like but I watch virtually every game on tv and have been a fan of this team thru thick and thin since 1982 (I was 10). I am much more willing to go to games now but I will most likely avoid Yankee and Red Sox games. Maybe 10 years ago when I was in my college years I would go to yell back at their fans but not now with a family. I would much rather go to a game where my family can enjoy not dealing with yahoos.

The reality of this argument is that out of the 40,000 fans that used to go to O's games, 90% of them were probably "casual fans" to start with. They went to have a good time and do the popular thing because they were winning. To me these fans are not the ones you will find on this site and thus calling us out as fairweather fans simply doesn't jive.

[NewMarketSean]

Not really though. Hordes?

Steeler fans haven't had a huge presence (more than 5k or 6k out of a 71k person stadium) since Memorial Stadium. Also, those fans are generally buying from ticket brokers, not season ticket holders.

5 or 6K is a horde IMO, put them all together and they'd have a good crowd.

[JTrea81]

As somebody else posted in the other thread, why should somebody fork out the money for a ticket and then pay more for food to be abused and taunted by Yankee and Red Sox fans all game?

And why would they suffer through this only to see their team lose and those annoying fans would just get more ammunition?

Fact - the actions of the Yankees and Red Sox fans are a huge turnoff to coming to OPACY, and the Orioles do practically nothing about it, and what ever weak effort they make like slightly raising prices to Yankee and Red Sox games is certainly not enough to deter those fans. Not to mention their own supplier, Aramark has the gall to sell Yankees and Red Sox merchandise in the Orioles team store and stands. That's absolutely unthinkable in Fenway and Aramark is the same supplier for the Red Sox.

Not to mention the Yankees and Red Sox own the Orioles over the last few years. Basically there is a good chance considering we are now 5-21 on the year vs. those two teams, that you are going to watch them lose when you see them play one of those two teams. And the reason is the Orioles refuse to spend money to put a winning product on the field that can beat those two teams

Factor in those two things, and with money being tight in a down economy, and frankly this is the situation you get.

Roy, I'd advise you to sit among the Yankees and Red Sox fans in the stands and see how the experience is before you call others out for not attending those games. I will never go to another Orioles/Red Sox game at OPACY after my experience. I get treated better at Fenway as an Orioles fan than in OPACY. That's just plain ridiculous. There's no attraction to go whatsoever IMO.

[frankpembleton]

5 or 6K is a horde IMO, put them all together and they'd have a good crowd.

True, but percentage-wise it's pretty small. Last year there were probably under 3k of them there, their presence was negligible.

[scottbbfm]

Fact - the actions of the Yankees and Red Sox fans are a huge turnoff to coming to OPACY, and the Orioles do practically nothing about it, and what ever weak effort they make like slightly raising prices to Yankee and Red Sox games is certainly not enough to deter those fans.

I think raising prices actually has the opposite effect. Those fans are going to come regardless. However, an Oriole fan is certainly not going to "pay up" to go to the game. Make it cheaper for an actual orioles fan to go to those games. If you buy 4 tickets to non-prime game, get a FREE Yankees/Red Sox ticket.