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Who were the best Oriole clutch hitters?


Frobby

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#1 obviously is Eddie Murray. You can look at just about any statistical measure that would relate to clutch hitting and Eddie was great in those situations. And even if you never looked at a statistic in your life, anyone who watched the guy play, or who spent time in Memorial Stadium when Eddie was up in a big situation in a close game, could tell you that Eddie was just frighteningly good (I chose that adverb intentionally) in the clutch.

Perhaps Murray had a fine overall record as a pinch hitter. I'll take your word for it. But in the 1979 series, Murray failed to hit when it mattered most. He also did most of his hitting in the 1983 WS when it didn't matter much. I have to weigh World Series games more than others in my assessment of clutch hitting.

In contrast, Brooks and Frank hit HRs in the first inning of the first game of the 1966 World Series. The upstart Orioles were huge underdogs against the mighty Dodgers of Koufax and Drysdale. Those two HRs demonstrated to both fans and other O's players that the Orioles were going to do a lot more than just show up for the games. Those timely HRs in the first inning of the first WS game that the Orioles played were the biggest clutch hits in the history of the Orioles baseball club.

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Don't be so nice with these whippersnappers who weren't around to even know or care about Palmer and Frank's injuries. :cussing:All these goobers do is look at the stats and to hell with reality of injuries and stuff.:angryfire: Don't you know that by now? :confused:

They know it all even though they weren't there and we don't know jack. Why is that? The stats are all that matter. YOu need to get with the program old man!:rolleyes:

You're funny.

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Tommy Davis has not been mentioned. When he played here he was considered a good clutch hitter.

Another good one. Tail Wind Tommy, acquired from the Cubs, the O's first DH. Right handed version of Harold Baines. Great outfielder who broke an ankle and came here with limited mobility but the bat was still deadly.

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Wait a sec... it doesn't make sense to pick Eddie's best years and then compare him to a subset of Frank's years that leave out the CIN part of his prime plus include '67 and '68 when he wasn't himself. Now, I don't wanna make a federal case out of it, because both Frank and Eddie are great O's and there's no reason to say one was worse. But you kinda picked years that helped Eddie and hurt Frank. The '67 and '68 version of Frank wasn't the real Frank, as the numbers you cited indicate.

The Cincinnati part of Frank's career is irrelevant to this thread, which is about who was the most clutch Oriole player. As to Frank's injury in 1967 and 1968, that is not a good excuse. In '67 Frank hit .311 overall, WAY above what he hit late and close. In '68 he hit .268 which again is better than he hit late and close. Moreover, most of Frank's '67 stats were compiled before his injury.

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Perhaps Murray had a fine overall record as a pinch hitter. I'll take your word for it. But in the 1979 series, Murray failed to hit when it mattered most. He also did most of his hitting in the 1983 WS when it didn't matter much. I have to weigh World Series games more than others in my assessment of clutch hitting.

In contrast, Brooks and Frank hit HRs in the first inning of the first game of the 1966 World Series. The upstart Orioles were huge underdogs against the mighty Dodgers of Koufax and Drysdale. Those two HRs demonstrated to both fans and other O's players that the Orioles were going to do a lot more than just show up for the games. Those timely HRs in the first inning of the first WS game that the Orioles played were the biggest clutch hits in the history of the Orioles baseball club.

Your post is money and explains why I have never thought of Murray as a better clutch hitter than either Frank or Brooks. That 66 Series was incredible in the fact you had so many future HOFer's involved in the critical aspects of the games. You had Frank and Brooks homering off of Drysdale. You had a young Palmer shutting down the Dodgers in a shutout gem. You had Koufax getting beat with Boog Powell (Oriole HOFer) surprisingly hitting Koufax well. You had Paul Blair (Oriole HOFer) hitting a monster shot homer giving the O's a 1-0 victory.

That series had the following future HOFERS:

1. Koufax

2. Drysdale.

3. Walter Alston

1. Frank

2. Brooks

3. Palmer

4. Aparicio

Plus future Oriole HOFers in Boog, Blair, and Davey Johnson.

What a series and younger Oriole fans should watch the ESPN Classic Replay of this Series and see what Clutch hitting and ace like pitching was all about!

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Tommy Davis has not been mentioned. When he played here he was considered a good clutch hitter.
Another good one. Tail Wind Tommy, acquired from the Cubs, the O's first DH. Right handed version of Harold Baines. Great outfielder who broke an ankle and came here with limited mobility but the bat was still deadly.

If you look at Davis' stats with the Orioles, two of his three years he was significantly worse in high leverage situations than in low. He was a little better in '74.

Maybe the folks who saw Davis can enlighten me on why he got MVP votes in '73 and '74. He was pretty much a full time DH with OPS+s of 107 and 105. He had 20 doubles, seven homers, 89 RBI, and 30 walks in '73, and similar numbers in '74. He finished 3rd in the batting race in '73, but that's the only thing he appeared in the leaderboards for. But he was 10th in the MVP voting in '73, and got a few votes (good for 26th) in '74. In '73 he got more votes than a bunch of great players with OPSes 150 points higher like Frank Robinson, Thurmon Munson, George Scott, Yaz, not to mention Nolan Ryan the year he had 383 Ks.

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Don't be so nice with these whippersnappers who weren't around to even know or care about Palmer and Frank's injuries. :cussing:All these goobers do is look at the stats and to hell with reality of injuries and stuff.:angryfire: Don't you know that by now? :confused:

They know it all even though they weren't there and we don't know jack. Why is that? The stats are all that matter. YOu need to get with the program old man!:rolleyes:

This is a ridiculous, condescending post.

Your post is money and explains why I have never thought of Murray as a better clutch hitter than either Frank or Brooks. That 66 Series was incredible in the fact you had so many future HOFer's involved in the critical aspects of the games. You had Frank and Brooks homering off of Drysdale. You had a young Palmer shutting down the Dodgers in a shutout gem. You had Koufax getting beat with Boog Powell (Oriole HOFer) surprisingly hitting Koufax well. You had Paul Blair (Oriole HOFer) hitting a monster shot homer giving the O's a 1-0 victory.

That series had the following future HOFERS:

1. Koufax

2. Drysdale.

3. Walter Alston

1. Frank

2. Brooks

3. Palmer

4. Aparicio

Plus future Oriole HOFers in Boog, Blair, and Davey Johnson.

What a series and younger Oriole fans should watch the ESPN Classic Replay of this Series and see what Clutch hitting and ace like pitching was all about!

This is one of your best posts ever.

We'll call it even in the rep dept.

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If you look at Davis' stats with the Orioles, two of his three years he was significantly worse in high leverage situations than in low. He was a little better in '74.

Maybe the folks who saw Davis can enlighten me on why he got MVP votes in '73 and '74. He was pretty much a full time DH with OPS+s of 107 and 105. He had 20 doubles, seven homers, 89 RBI, and 30 walks in '73, and similar numbers in '74. He finished 3rd in the batting race in '73, but that's the only thing he appeared in the leaderboards for. But he was 10th in the MVP voting in '73, and got a few votes (good for 26th) in '74. In '73 he got more votes than a bunch of great players with OPSes 150 points higher like Frank Robinson, Thurmon Munson, George Scott, Yaz, not to mention Nolan Ryan the year he had 383 Ks.

Tommy Davis could flat out rake AL pitching. He came over from the NL and feasted in the DH role. Come to think of it he could hit NL pitching pretty well also. If I remember correctly he seemed to make a regular appearance in the NL Top Ten Hitters (BA) as well.

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If you look at Davis' stats with the Orioles, two of his three years he was significantly worse in high leverage situations than in low. He was a little better in '74.

Maybe the folks who saw Davis can enlighten me on why he got MVP votes in '73 and '74. He was pretty much a full time DH with OPS+s of 107 and 105. He had 20 doubles, seven homers, 89 RBI, and 30 walks in '73, and similar numbers in '74. He finished 3rd in the batting race in '73, but that's the only thing he appeared in the leaderboards for. But he was 10th in the MVP voting in '73, and got a few votes (good for 26th) in '74. In '73 he got more votes than a bunch of great players with OPSes 150 points higher like Frank Robinson, Thurmon Munson, George Scott, Yaz, not to mention Nolan Ryan the year he had 383 Ks.

So, nobody who saw Tommy Davis play for the O's and paid attention has any idea why he received MVP votes far beyond what you'd expect from his playing record? I am really curious. This was a pure DH who was 27th in the league in OPS+ who got some semi-serious looks in the MVP voting.

Jeez, gimme more than a minute, will ya? ;-)

I think it's because nobody knew about OPS and looked at other stuff. The O's had just missed the playoff's in '72 after getting rid of Frank, but they bounced back to win the division in '73 and '74. When they bounced back in '73, who was the newly acquired veteran who remembered how to win? Who was the only full-time player who hit .300? Who was the guy who led the team in RBI? I think that's what people went by. When a team wins the division, some non-P on that team is gonna get some MVP votes. Maybe not a lot, but some. Who else was gonna get those votes? Boog with his .265 BA and 54 ribbies, or Brooks who hit .257 and 9 dingers? At least Davis' .306 looked decent and 89 ribbies wasn't that far from 100. And it's not like he got a lot of votes. Finishing 10th and 26th in MVP voting doesn't mean a whole lot.

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Jeez, gimme more than a minute, will ya? ;-)

I think it's because nobody knew about OPS and looked at other stuff. The O's had just missed the playoff's in '72 after getting rid of Frank, but they bounced back to win the division in '73 and '74. When they bounced back in '73, who was the newly acquired veteran who remembered how to win? Who was the only full-time player who hit .300? Who was the guy who led the team in RBI? I think that's what people went by. When a team wins the division, some non-P on that team is gonna get some MVP votes. Maybe not a lot, but some. Who else was gonna get those votes? Boog with his .265 BA and 54 ribbies, or Brooks who hit .257 and 9 dingers? At least Davis' .306 looked decent and 89 ribbies wasn't that far from 100. And it's not like he got a lot of votes. Finishing 10th and 26th in MVP voting doesn't mean a whole lot.

I guess. But 10th in the MVP voting isn't completely meaningless. I guess I need to file this away under the heading of Clueless Writers Being Even More Clueless Before Bill James. I mean that was the same year Mark Belanger outpointed Bert Blyleven, when Belanger had a .564 OPS and Blyleven led the league in ERA+ while throwing 325 innings(!!!!!!!). But it just feels bizarre to have a full-time DH with a .732 OPS lapping Bobby Grich and Yaz and Nolan Ryan and Frank Robinson in the MVP voting.

And just for some backward-looking perspective, some relevant 1973 WAR totals:

Belanger: 2.8

Blyleven: 9.2

Grich: 7.3

Robinson: 4.7

Ryan: 7.9

Yaz: 5.0

Tommy Davis: 0.7

Munson: 6.6

Reggie Jackson (real MVP): 8.1

Palmer (runner up): 6.1

Amos Otis: 4.1

Sal Bando: 7.3

Rod Carew: 6.9

I didn't look up everyone in the top 20, but they just really whiffed on Davis. Brooks Robinson, who didn't get a single vote and didn't deserve one, was worth two wins more than Davis. Paul Blair was nearly four wins better. Grich six-and-a-half. Davis was barely in the top 10 Orioles in 1973.

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Early on in his career Brooks got the reputation as a clutch hitter. Radio and television commentators would talk about it. He really solidified the reputation during his MVP year of 1964. He carried that reputation throughout his career.

I always wanted Frank up in a clutch situation, he was so dangerous. I am not sure he was any more dangerous in the clutch than normal, but if it was a really big situation Frank would be my choice.

From 69-71, the most dangerous and clutch Oriole in my mind was Boog. He also had very good years in 64 and 66.

Eddie was great throughout his career, and when clutch hitting stats are compared, he is without comparison.

If I had to choose, Frank and Eddie would be at the top, Brooks and Boog close behind, but overall, it wouldn't matter much, I would be feeling really good with any of those guys coming up.

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