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The Great Tillman Debate

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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There is more to the decision than talent.
Why? Isn't there a difference between talent level and MLB preparedness?

This is why DT should have never said that there was open competition for the 5th spot in the rotation. He will go against those words if Tillman makes it over DH.

There is a big difference from talent level and being MLB ready.

Tillman was just as good as DH in AAA with 7 more starts. For as old as DH is he only has 11 AAA starts. Let DH work on that pitch in AAA until Millwood/Guts gets traded or a starter gets injured.

I am not knocking DH at all. I think if his slider gets consistent he can be a top of the rotation type pitcher. The problem is Tillman is the one that gets hurt by this move, IMO. IMO, he is our best pitcher and he needs to face MLB if he is going to improve his ability to get out MLB hitters.

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Beltwayman AAA

Beltwayman

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Hernandez may be able to develop a sinker and sort of re-invent himself but he isn't on the same level as Tillman is.

This season is supposed to be about results, not potential.

Tillman has a better uspide, but so did Ben McDonald. Upside talks about what a player may do, not what he's doing right now. Tillman needs time this year in the minors.....at least in the begginning of this season. Actually, its Tillmans upside I want to protect. The more boston and the yankees see him when he's not ready, the better they will be prepared for him when he gets enough seasoning. He allows to many hr's. So does Hernandez, but Hernandez is showing he's more prepared right now. Sending him down will motivate him all the more to work on not giving up those homers.

As your point out, he turns 25 soon...No, that isn't old but it is old to think he will all of sudden turn his career around and become something that most people don't think he is...a solid starter.

Hernandez has nothing let to prove in the minors. He would benefit by facing major leaguers who can take advantage of his mistakes and teach him something productive. And He still would produced better numbers this year, imo, than Tillman. Tillman wont have a 500 record this year, imo; too many homers and lack of concentration. With all Hernandez's short comings, he still will make less than Tilllman, give us a better chance to win. Has Hernandez learned from last years experience via the long ball? I think he deserves a chance to show it. I couldnt prove this, but I think Hernandez will benefit from having a guy simular to him in nature but not experience (Millwood) on the team.

Do I think DH could be a 5ish ERA, 150 IP guy? Yes I do...Is that good enough for the back of the rotation? Sure.

But where is he on the pecking order? Matusz, Tillman, BB, Arrieta, Britton..Maybe he is next...MAYBE.

Again, I think your making a mistake looking at potential, and not results. Who is ready today? Who gives the team the best chance to win today? Matusz is the only one I might put in front of him, but even Matusz I would rather start in Norfolk, and then bring him up early if he looks ready.

Do I want DH in the rotation over Guthrie? You bet I do. The Orioles missed the boat on dealing Guthrie as they were so worried with the state of the rotation and now, they may get nothing for him. But right now, with things the way they are, Guthrie needs to be in the rotation in hopes he can produce and we can move him.

I believe the future should be protected, and not rushed. Theres not a better way to send that message home to Tillman than to send him to Norfolk. It would motivate him to work all the harder. No free lunch in the majors. He's had his cup of coffee, now its time for him to show that he's willing to do whats necessary to get to the next level.

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tvz1997 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

tvz1997

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Tillman IS our best pitcher? I know there are quite a few folks on here who believe that Tillman will be our best pitcher, but I think you are alone in thinking that he is better than Bergy, Millwood, and Matusz right now.

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SilentJames Hangout Veteran Council

SilentJames

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The question remains: If the fifth spot was "up for grabs" and Hernandez "beat" Tillman - why shouldn't Hernandez get the job? I mean, frankly I think it is a good argument to have.

I get the feeling that Tillman gets the fifth starter job anyway, but DH may have won the job, isn't that what is supposed to happen?

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Arthur_Bryant All-Star

Arthur_Bryant

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This is what happens when you have depth of talent, although it happens more often with position players than with starting pitchers. Most teams are trying to plug a hole with the #5 guy in the rotation--not trying to decide among three promising young arms.

I don't know who should get that slot going north, but I disagree with the notion that any of the three will be "hurt" by the decision, as someone suggested of Tillman earlier in the thread.

And get used to it, because in all likelihood the competition next spring will be tough too, though Millwood and (possibly) Guthrie may be gone.

Personally, I can't wait until the O's take off the training wheels and hand the staff completely over to the youngsters.

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EL_Coyote AAA

EL_Coyote

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This is what happens when you have depth of talent, although it happens more often with position players than with starting pitchers. Most teams are trying to plug a hole with the #5 guy in the rotation--not trying to decide among three promising young arms.

Yeah, have to agree with the first paragraph very strongly. Normally that #5 guy is iffy as a starter at best on many teams. For the first time in a long time it's been a real competition in Baltimore not band aid after band aid.It is something to watch and get excited about in and of itself.

Also I think we (posting members here) get caught up in potential (could be a ToR type or #2 starter type) and get locked into the talk of potential way too often. Sure Tillman's ceiling is far higher than David Hernandez' however that doesn't mean that he has really outperformed DH this spring at all. Or will at any point this year. I am rooting for them both and really praying that DT makes the right call, helping the team win games.

I've read almost every post in this thread with great enthusiasm as both sides of the crystal ball make some good points. Great to have some positives in March isn't it?

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Why? Isn't there a difference between talent level and MLB preparedness?

Of course there is. Plus, I'd guess this decision is more on AM than DT. I want Tillman up and starting, but Hernandez taking that role to start is not nearly the end of the world as some seem to want to make it into.

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