The Great Tillman Debate

[Sports Guy]

That's fine, but my point is still valid.

Yes and no...Yes, it is encouraging that he has looked better...But if he is doing that in short stints, outside of today, that only helps his case so much IMO.

[weams]

Hernandez, D 5.0 4 0 0 2 6 0

[mweb]

Yes and no...Yes, it is encouraging that he has looked better...But if he is doing that in short stints, outside of today, that only helps his case so much IMO.

It still helps his case, so yes and yes. That is one of the obstacles to him becoming a good starter, so better control this spring is a positive towards him being able to start regardless of how long the stints are. I'm not saying it means he definitely going to be a good starter due to it or this spring in general, or anything remotehly close to it, but it is promising.

[Sports Guy]

It still helps his case, so yes and yes. That is one of the obstacles to him becoming a good starter, so better control this spring is a positive towards him being able to start regardless of how long the stints are. I'm not saying it means he definitely going to be a good starter due to it or this spring in general, or anything remotehly close to it, but it is promising.

But if he isn't doing it for 5-7 innings on a consistent basis, which he isn't right now, it only means so much.

The fact that he has come to ST and been very good in short stints shouldn't surprise anyone.

The kid has a great arm and in 1-3 inning stretches, he can and will be a dominant pitcher...That's not the issue...The issue is can he do it as a starter,

[amateurfan]

90 pitches for 5IP in spring training. Come on - that's a very good performance at this time of year.

[mweb]

But if he isn't doing it for 5-7 innings on a consistent basis, which he isn't right now, it only means so much.

The fact that he has come to ST and been very good in short stints shouldn't surprise anyone.

The kid has a great arm and in 1-3 inning stretches, he can and will be a dominate pitcher...That's not the issue...The issue is can he do it as a starter,

I'm not saying it means a ton, just saying it's promising, which it clearly is.

And again, with his slider and control from last year, he wouldn't be a dominant reliever or anything close to it. I certainly wouldn't have expected him to only walk 1 batter in 10 innings no matter how many appearances it took to get to that 10 innings.

So this spring is promising for him as a pitcher period. Starter or reliever.

[Sports Guy]

I'm saying it means a ton, just saying it's promising, which it clearly is.

And again, with his slider and control from last year, he wouldn't be a dominant reliever or anything close to it. I certainly wouldn't have expected him to only walk 1 batter in 10 innings no matter how many appearances it took to get to that 10 innings.

So this spring is promising for him as a pitcher period. Starter or reliever.

And again, you would expect those things to be better as a reliever.

[Stotle]

And again, you would expect those things to be better as a reliever.

You'd only expect command to be better in relief if 1) there is something extra going on from the wind-up, or 2) command issues are tied to mechanics altering as the pitcher tires.

You can certainly say that the effects of poor command can be better hidden in the pen due to shorter stints (it's more likely the issues will catch-up when you are matching-up with hitters over 5 IP, resulting in a long inning and even worse performance as your pitch count rises).

[mweb]

And again, you would expect those things to be better as a reliever.

The slider's issue was the seams, not the length of outings. It's not like he was thowing them well the first couple innings and then it fell apart. I don't think control changes that much between a starter and a reliever other than when a pitcher starts to get fatigued late in the game. The 50-90th pitches shouldn't see much less control imo for guys who have the ability to be a starter.

Yes, of course he along with most other pitchers would be more effective on a per inning basis as a reliever, but that's much more from going all out and not having to go through the lineup multiple times than it is the pitchers control worsening and the feel for a breaking pitch.

[Lucky Jim]

Everything(command, control, secondary pitches, etc...) is likely to be better in short stints.

As Stotle said - it's not that anything is better in short stints, it's that it's easier to hide the flaws in short stints. Inconsistency is less likely to show, etc.

I'm gladdened by this start, even if I'm big on Tillman. Lots of good stuff, if DH is throwing like an MLB starter. Tillman's command is still somewhat iffy, and that's two starts in a row. If DH looks like he's figured it out, fantastic.

[Craig...No Dots]

DH and Berken automatically to Norfolk, or possibly still in the mix for relief (especially if Koji is DLed)?

I def think Koji starts on the DL. I though that might help Albers, but I think at this point you have to reward Hernandez with at least a bullpen spot. He has pitched real well.

Let Koji have the time needed to get 100%

[Sports Guy]

As Stotle said - it's not that anything is better in short stints, it's that it's easier to hide the flaws in short stints. Inconsistency is less likely to show, etc.

I'm gladdened by this start, even if I'm big on Tillman. Lots of good stuff, if DH is throwing like an MLB starter. Tillman's command is still somewhat iffy, and that's two starts in a row. If DH looks like he's figured it out, fantastic.

Partially true....He also doesn't have to repeat his delivery as much and he doesn't have to set up hitters...He can just go all out from the first pitch.

[crowmst3k!]

Bring Hernandez north. 6 man rotation. ; )

[waroriole]

I think this is a lot tougher of a call than most people and here's a case for Hernandez.

He's 25, now is the time to figure out what he is going to be. He's obviously thought alot about how to improve as a SP in the offseason. He is working on adding a 2 seamer to keep his FB down. He seems to understand what went wrong last year, and this could be the time to see if he has figured it out. He has outpitched Tillman in the spring (though small sample size).

We know that Tillman is going to be a SP for us in the near future. He still has some command problems that he needs to work on. This could make Tillman realize that he won't be handed a starting job, that if he has these inconsistencies in his location, they must be worked out before he's a SP for the O's.

I'm not saying yet that I would give it to DH, but I think there is a strong case to be made, and I'm not going to be upset if DH is the #5 SP to begin the season.

[Bunker]

Hernandez and Berken have pitched better this spring than Tillman. It just seems dishonest to declare that the competition for the fifth spot is completely open when in fact for many reasons noted in this thread, it was Tillman's spot to lose. These kinds of declarations are made in many professional sports but the lack of integrity that is comprised in the statements can only create cynicism.