A disturbing trend in the FO

[RShack]

The idea is to contend, not be a farm system of other contenders.

Thank you.

[AgentOrange]

I think the collective wisdom of the OH Nation far exceeds that of the brain trust of the fron office.

In the end, though, at the deadline, we didn't do ANYTHING. Again caught in between rebuilding and competing in order to sell tickets at minimum possible payroll. That's the Angelos way.

I have to stick up for the FO on this one. I really think they were in a tough spot.

I mean look at this situation we are in now. We are gunshy about "not giving up to the fans" and we are clearly out of contention. What do you think the rationale was last year at this time when we were in 1st?

[Sapper]

I think you are one for seven with your ideas here.

Mora -would not trade him. He is part of a winning O's team in 2007-2008.

Are you taking bets?

Lopez -Javy - the problem here is that Beattie back loaded the contract and no one wanted a 35 year old catcher with an $8.5M contract this past winter. Flanagan would have traded him if they could. He has no market value because he is dragging that contract around with him.

eat part of the contract. sorry, this team needs to spend more to contend.

Lopez - RLo - Answer Mora's question. If you trade RLo, "who was going to pitch for us?" during the first half of this year. You think you were going to trade him for a better major league ready pitcher. Dream on.

This one was purely hindsight. I expected more from him. But he is just one more player we held onto too long.

Tejada - He is the O's center piece. If the O's make the right moves this off season they are contender. If they trade Miggy their next chance to contend is probably 2009. Where do the O's get a MVP and consistent All-Star for $12M a year. Most of them don't even want to talk to a 8 year losing team.

Centerpiece of what? This is a garbage team. I wish I could get a dose of whatever you're taking.

Roberts - The future. You don't trade him.

I wouldn't trade him now but he was mentioned in the context of when his value was peaked last summer.

Bedard - They finally develop an ace and now you want to trade him. My goodness. The idea is to contend, not be a farm system of other contenders.

Your definition of "ace" must be different from mine. In my world you must win more than a handful of games in a season before you're crowned as an "ace". But again, I'd hold onto him now. His name also came up in context of last year.

[Sapper]

Question for Sapper. If Cabrera throws 3 shutouts in a row, should we deal him?

If you go back up the thread, you'll see he's on my "don't trade" list right now.

If he throws 3 shutouts in a row and somebody picks up the phone and makes us an offer we can't refuse, you do it.

Right now, though I still believe his potential is greater than his value.

[RShack]

What do you think the rationale was last year at this time when we were in 1st?

Whatsa matter wit you, dude? They had owned 1st place for a couple months, had some injuries, and hit a bad spot. What should they have done? They should have traded away *all* the good players for prospects who had not proved squat. But they woulda been *really valuable* prospects. Isn't that what any good franchise does when they're either in 1st place or within spitting distance it? Don't they all completely dismantle their team, write off 3 seasons, and hope that they'll win some years later... maybe...

It's perfectly obvious... to Sapper. What part don't you understand?

[utvolzac]

I have to stick up for the FO on this one. I really think they were in a tough spot.

I mean look at this situation we are in now. We are gunshy about "not giving up to the fans" and we are clearly out of contention. What do you think the rationale was last year at this time when we were in 1st?

If they wanted to get the fans confidence, they should have tried to improve the team while we were in 1st. Instead we end up with Byrnes for Bigbie and another 2nd half collapse.

Between Angelos' promises and consistant losing seasons, I don't think the FO should be worried about the fans perceptions at this point. Just go make the best deals you can. The fans will come back when there is a winning team on the field.

[hoosiers]

Would that have been the case if we traded him before the DBacks and Mets traded for their catchers????

To who? The Dbacks and Mets? The Mets wanted LoDuca bad. This whole "Javy should have been traded" is simply wishful thinking. No one wanted Molina this past off-season for a while before the BJays stepped in. No one wanted Javy for an reasonable price. If you wanted to eat two-thirds of his salary and take a borderline top 15 prospect, then that may have found a taker. But, for that price, Javy has more value as a backup catcher and has the potential to create value at the deadline with a good first half to the Os.

[Sapper]

I have to stick up for the FO on this one. I really think they were in a tough spot.

I mean look at this situation we are in now. We are gunshy about "not giving up to the fans" and we are clearly out of contention. What do you think the rationale was last year at this time when we were in 1st?

Who puts them in that position?

[Sapper]

If they wanted to get the fans confidence, they should have tried to improve the team while we were in 1st. Instead we end up with Byrnes for Bigbie and another 2nd half collapse.

Between Angelos' promises and consistant losing seasons, I don't think the FO should be worried about the fans perceptions at this point. Just go make the best deals you can. The fans will come back when there is a winning team on the field.

BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[hoosiers]

Though I generally support our FO on a large majority of decisions, I agree with some sentiment that we seemed woefully unprepared to deal BJ Ryan at the deadline last year.

[Frobby]

No indication? How about the whole month of June? If anyone thought we were contenders at the deadline last year, they were deluded.

We were contenders as of July 18. On that day the O's were 50-42 and Bedard had just returned that night to pitch an extremely impressive game in a 3-2 win. The team had won 6 of its last 9 games, including taking 3 of 4 from the Red Sox immediately before the all star break. Javy Lopez had not returned from the DL but was expected back momentarily. The Raffy scandal hadn't broken yet, he had just passed 3000 hits and was hot as a firecracker. We were 1/2 game behind the Yankees and tied with the Red Sox. As of that day we figured to be buyers, not sellers. Things were looking up.

The next night, B.J. Ryan blew a 9th-inning save. One night later, the O's blew a 2-run lead late. They proceeded to lose 6 in a row, 14 of 15, and by the time the dust had cleared on August 3, Mazzilli had been fired, Raffy had been suspended, and the rest is history.

It still blows my mind how quickly that happened. We went from contenders to road kill in 2 short weeks. You can honestly say that you always felt we'd fall out of the race -- you were on record, in spades. But I bet even you didn't foresee that it would happen so quickly. At most, the O's had maybe a few days to readjust their thinking and become a seller, not a buyer.

[Mark Carver]

Are you saying that at the trade deadline last year with all the lack of decent hitting catchers in the League that we couldn't have gotten anything for him?

What were the chances of the Orioles trading Javy Lopez at the trading deadline in 2005... when -

1) He was coming off of a broken hand and came off of the DL on July 25th.

2) At the time of him going on the DL he was hitting 278/316/481/797.

How much should have the Orioles ate of his remaining $11+m contract?

[Sapper]

We were contenders as of July 18. On that day the O's were 50-42 and Bedard had just returned that night to pitch an extremely impressive game in a 3-2 win. The team had won 6 of its last 9 games, including taking 3 of 4 from the Red Sox immediately before the all star break. Javy Lopez had not returned from the DL but was expected back momentarily. The Raffy scandal hadn't broken yet, he had just passed 3000 hits and was hot as a firecracker. We were 1/2 game behind the Yankees and tied with the Red Sox. As of that day we figured to be buyers, not sellers. Things were looking up.

The next night, B.J. Ryan blew a 9th-inning save. One night later, the O's blew a 2-run lead late. They proceeded to lose 6 in a row, 14 of 15, and by the time the dust had cleared on August 3, Mazzilli had been fired, Raffy had been suspended, and the rest is history.

It still blows my mind how quickly that happened. We went from contenders to road kill in 2 short weeks. You can honestly say that you always felt we'd fall out of the race -- you were on record, in spades. But I bet even you didn't foresee that it would happen so quickly. At most, the O's had maybe a few days to readjust their thinking and become a seller, not a buyer.

All true. I do remember cautioning people that our great position early in the season also had a lot to do with the Yanks and Sox playing so poorly while we got off to a hot start. Clearly after June, things were trending badly for us, regardless of the standings. But again, both last offseason AND at the trade deadline, we were fence-sitters. We weren't buying big and weren't selling big. That's a shame. That's a wasted opportunity no matter which way you think the season was going at that point.

That leads me to the next question: What we will do before this year's deadline?

[AgentOrange]

All true. I do remember cautioning people that our great position early in the season also had a lot to do with the Yanks and Sox playing so poorly while we got off to a hot start. Clearly after June, things were trending badly for us, regardless of the standings. But again, both last offseason AND at the trade deadline, we were fence-sitters. We weren't buying big and weren't selling big. That's a shame. That's a wasted opportunity no matter which way you think the season was going at that point.

That leads me to the next question: What we will do before this year's deadline?

Please see: Orioles, Baltimore 2005.

[clapdiddy]

That leads me to the next question: What we will do before this year's deadline?

I would bet very little. Bigbird's statement that Big Pete saying we need to keep Tejada because he's a "big name", leads me to believe that there will be no big moves, but maybe a few little ones.

You know...kind of like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I think trading Tejada now for a boatload of young talent is the way to go. I'd love to see us do something with the Angels...or what about the Dodgers? Mueller has only played in 32 games this year. If Tejada is willing to move to 3B for the Angels, would he be willing to do it for the Dodgers? And yes....I know he hasn't agreed to move at all yet.