Angels and Orioles have discussed Tejada

[rp0806]

When you say that Tejada is offensively superior "without a doubt" to both Soriano AND Abreu, are you using any objective measure whatsoever? I'll at least admit that I can keep an open mind and see that you can make arguments for and against. At the very least, these players are comparable offensively. Anyone who says that it's a no brainer that Tejada would add more to the Angels offense this year has just got their head in the sand. Of course, I'm starting to get the impression that yours is someplace else altogether.

That "without a doubt" comment is definitely a bit hyperbolic. Based purely on offense, I'd rank them Abreu/Tejada/Soriano, but Tejada and Soriano aren't far apart. Abreu is still a much better hitter than either, but I do wonder if he's poised for a steep dropoff.

[Sports Guy]

Sports Guy, if there was one guy I could count on to piece together a solid, objective, statistical argument in favor of Tejada over Abreu, it'd be you. Throwing around WARPs and OPS's and all manner of other sabermetrics is what you do in these sorts of discussions (not knocking that, it's what I do too ).

The fact that you haven't uttered a single statistic in this thread speaks volumes about who you know is right here. The fact is, there is no objective, statistical argument to be made for Tejada over Abreu.

All the pro-Tejada crowd can do is mumble about 30 vs. 32 years old, and contract trivialities, and SS vs. RF, and now apparently "common sense". None of that stuff matters to the Angels, at least not very much.

The thing that matters is, which guy is going to provide the Angels with a bigger offensive boost? Try making a case for Tejada on that issue.

I am on vacation..Don't have time alot of look up stats.

[delaware bird]

You don't seem to understand what "over a barrel" means.

In this case you say "Fine buddy, I'll go look for another truck until I find one for $1000. You're not the only guy with a truck to sell in this town."

When you say that Tejada is offensively superior "without a doubt" to both Soriano AND Abreu, are you using any objective measure whatsoever? I'll at least admit that I can keep an open mind and see that you can make arguments for and against. At the very least, these players are comparable offensively. Anyone who says that it's a no brainer that Tejada would add more to the Angels offense this year has just got their head in the sand. Of course, I'm starting to get the impression that yours is someplace else altogether.

I understand your point of view. I simply disagree. If you think that is having my head somewhere it shouldn't be, then you might need to take a course on acceptance.

I like my stories. As for that story, there are other trucks. But only 1 exactly like the one the farmer has. He's in no rush to sell it, so he calls the shots. The point is that if the O's keep Tejada, that's good. If the O's trade Tejada for the right package, that's good too. Accepting anything less than what you want in that situation is downright silly.

Tejada is superior to Abreu or Soriano for me. For you, perhaps different.

Compare them? Okay.

MVP Awards:

Tejada = 1, with 6 top 20 finishes

Abreu = 0, 2 top 20 finishes

Soriano = 0, 2 top 20 finishes

Contracts:

Tejada = 12 million 07, 13 million 08, 13 million 09

Abreu = 15 million in 07, 16 million 08

Soriano = ending, will attempt to break the bank in 07

I say Tejada is the better buy.

However, I respect your differing opinion. I would ask that you respect mine and leave out the snide comments. Thanks.

[delaware bird]

When you say that Tejada is offensively superior "without a doubt" to both Soriano AND Abreu, are you using any objective measure whatsoever?

Careful with the quotes there. Never did I type "without a doubt" (I went back and double checked).

I typed:

"But, Tejada IS superior to either Abreu or Soriano. Obviously he is inferior to both players together."

and

"However Tejada clearly has more value than Soriano."

If you are going to quote me, please be accurate.

[Fan4Life]

Any comments or trade ideas having Tejada changing positions have missed the thread where OCab said he would move to 3b for Tejada..

[davearm]

I hope you meant this is a joke because it's laughable. You must be SG's long lost evil twin. (no offense SG)

Have you watched Anderson in LF and Rivera in CF this year? Have you seen the Angels play at all this year? Figgins in CF, Rivera in LF and Anderson at DH is their best current defensive alignment. McPherson can't stay healthy and has been a bust. With their current offensive deficiencies they can't continue to play Izturis at 3rd. IF the Angels were to trade for Tejada (which by the way will not happen) he would clearly be their everyday 3rd basemen. Do you honestly think they would trade for him (or Abreu or Soriano for that matter) and make them their DH?

If the Phillies current asking price for Abreu is McPherson and Mathis the Angels should not hesitate to pull the trigger. Abreu is a better fit for the Angels and would cost the Angels much less than Tejada. I'm sure the FO's asking price is much too high, but why you constantly attempt to devalue Tejada's worth is ridiculous.

Have I watched Anderson in LF and Rivera in CF this year? Not a lot, but statistically, they're both league average defenders at those positions, and at least the Angels know what they're going to get with each guy... solid but unspectacular.

Mark, have you watched Tejada play 3B this year? How about last year, or the year before?

And how's Cabrera been at third?

Yeah, didn't think so.

And I'm not attempting to devalue Tejada. I'm trying to help you people recognize that the value you think is there, in things like age, contract, position, etc. really isn't there, at least not with the Angels and their situation. They simply have little reason to care about those things.

[davearm]

Careful with the quotes there. Never did I type "without a doubt" (I went back and double checked).

I typed:

"But, Tejada IS superior to either Abreu or Soriano. Obviously he is inferior to both players together."

and

"However Tejada clearly has more value than Soriano."

If you are going to quote me, please be accurate.

DB --

It seems clear to me anyway, that the Angels' clear priority is to upgrade their offense.

Do you believe Tejada would upgrade their offense more than Abreu would?

More than Soriano would?

[delaware bird]

Maybe you should go back and reread. You even quoted my question in your post and directly beneath my question you answered "But Tejada IS superior .....

I was responding to your quote. Nothing fancy about it. If you want to attribute the quote, attribute it correctly to yourself.

If you take offense that you were wrong, then so be it. But there is no need to irritable about it.

Again, in case you didn't get it the first two times, I said:

"But, Tejada IS superior to either Abreu or Soriano. Obviously he is inferior to both players together."

As per objectivity, 'better' is an opinion by nature. Thus objectivity is left to the observer. Your need to believe that there is one singular truth (that also coincides with your opinion) is a bit arrogant.

[delaware bird]

DB --

It seems clear to me anyway, that the Angels' clear priority is to upgrade their offense.

Do you believe Tejada would upgrade their offense more than Abreu would?

More than Soriano would?

Tejada upgrade the offense? Yes, more than Soriano or Abreu.

I suppose the real question is upgrade versus investment. Tejada will cost more in so far as prospects. But he is under contract for 3 more years at reasonable terms.

If I were GM of the Angels, I'd be torn. Each player is quite nice. I'd even be tempted to do nothing and try to sign Soriano in the offseason. At the end of the day though, Tejada would be my choice. Would I pay Santana, Kendrick, and Adenhart? Probably not. I'd negotiate to keep Santana.

[markpolis]

And I'm not attempting to devalue Tejada. I'm trying to help you people recognize that the value you think is there, in things like age, contract, position, etc. really isn't there, at least not with the Angels and their situation. They simply have little reason to care about those things.

Dave, You lose a lot of credibility with blanket stereotypes such as the above comment. This is just one of the many reasons why people on this board take issue with some of your posts.

Please take the time to read my post before lumping me together with the others who have discussed age, contract and position. To refresh, I said:

"Abreu is a better fit for the Angels and would cost the Angels much less than Tejada."

Now that doesn't sound like one of "you people"to me.

[Mackus]

Tejada upgrade the offense? Yes, more than Soriano or Abreu.

Gotta disagree there. Abreu is certainly more valuable offensively than Tejada, I don't really think that is much of a debate. Soriano is certainly more valuable than Tejada this season as he is having a career year, Tejada is probably better most seasons.

Abreu has a 7.98 RC/27, Soriano is a 7.24, and Tejada is at 5.82, so it really isn't even very close in terms of who's better offensively, at least right now. Tejada is hurt by his so-so OBP while Abreu is helped by his incredible OBP and Soriano is, as I said, having just a career year with 29 HR already and a .576 SLG to go along with a career-high OBP.

[davearm]

Dave, You lose a lot of credibility with blanket stereotypes such as the above comment. This is just one of the many reasons why people on this board take issue with some of your posts.

Please take the time to read my post before lumping me together with the others who have discussed age, contract and position. To refresh, I said:

"Abreu is a better fit for the Angels and would cost the Angels much less than Tejada."

Now that doesn't sound like one of "you people"to me.

My apologies Mark, if I was incorrect to attribute those viewpoints to you.

Since you didn't respond to the question I asked you about Tejada's and Cabrera's defensive abilities at 3B, I presume my point was not lost on you that having Tejada DH would be the safe/smart choice.

[rp0806]

Since you didn't respond to the question I asked you about Tejada's and Cabrera's defensive abilities at 3B, I presume my point was not lost on you that having Tejada DH would be the safe/smart choice.

3B is easier than SS. LF is easier than CF. It makes far more sense to play Tejada or Cabrera at 3B than it does to play Rivera in CF. 3B and SS just aren't that different.

[markpolis]

Since you didn't respond to the question I asked you about Tejada's and Cabrera's defensive abilities at 3B, I presume my point was not lost on you that having Tejada DH would be the safe/smart choice.

Thank you once again for proving my point. I guess some things just come natural to some people.

Do you honestly think the Angels would trade for Tejada OR Soriano OR Abreu and insert them into a fulltime DH role? Yeah, that would be a "safe/smart choice" by the Angels. Piss off and alienate the newest addition to your club.

Again, if you would read other people's posts you wouldn't continually make so many false presumptions.

[delaware bird]

Gotta disagree there. Abreu is certainly more valuable offensively than Tejada, I don't really think that is much of a debate. Soriano is certainly more valuable than Tejada this season as he is having a career year, Tejada is probably better most seasons.

Abreu has a 7.98 RC/27, Soriano is a 7.24, and Tejada is at 5.82, so it really isn't even very close in terms of who's better offensively, at least right now. Tejada is hurt by his so-so OBP while Abreu is helped by his incredible OBP and Soriano is, as I said, having just a career year with 29 HR already and a .576 SLG to go along with a career-high OBP.

I understand where you come from. I am probably a bit biased towards Tejada. I've never been a Soriano fan. I think Bobby Abreu is a heck of a player though. Soriano is having a MVP year. But I'd be reluctant to part with high level prospects for a 3 month rental. Perhaps the Angels are not.

However, stats are deceptive. True Abreu does get on base much more often than Tejada (.442OBP to .361OBP this year), but is a walk just as good as a hit??? In some situations, I would say yes. In many others no. Tejada has more HR, runs scored, RBI, and a higher batting average and slugging than Abreu. Perhaps my Oriole slant is too strong, but I still prefer Tejada (although how I'd love to see Abreu in black and orange).