Would you trade Adam Jones even up for these CF's?

[REDMAN]

We all love ADAM, but he really needs to move to a corner OF position, the years have taken their toll, the orioles need to pickup a great defensive CF because his defense is not cutting it right now.

[Redskins Rick]

Doesn't AJ start out well, as he is 100%?

Then as the season wears on and he gets nick, so does his ability to play at this same high level.

 

[spiritof66]

10 hours ago, amdcpus said:

This team needs to get younger, not older. Jones is slow, not a good defender, and will command far too much. Time to move on.

Why do you think Jones will "command" too much? He may want a gig contract, but who will pay a lot of money, or commit more than a couple of years, to an old, slow, bad defensive outfielder? 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

Why do you think Jones will "command" too much? He may want a gig contract, but who will pay a lot of money, or commit more than a couple of years, to an old, slow, bad defensive outfielder? 

While I don’t think he’ll get a king’s ransom, if he puts up his usual .280 with 25-30 homers and 80+ RBI, I think he’ll get a 3/$40 mm type deal.   Teams like consistency.   

[FanSince88]

11 hours ago, atomic said:

According to Baseball reference most similar player through age 31 is Andre Dawson..  Andre had 49 homers and 137 RBIs in his age 32 Season on his way to a Hall of Fame Career.  

Question is does Dawson make the Hall without that age 32 season where he exploded at the plate.  Without a season like that where he totally goes off, AJ might come just short of Cooperstown induction, despite his underrated consistency.  Also Dawson was a much more prolific base stealer than Jones ever was.  

[FanSince88]

3 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

He is the face of the franchise. He is the veteran leader of the team. He also needs to have a few more days off this year. He also should not be retained to play CF next season. He is not chasing those down and away pitches right now. Beautiful to watch, but will it continue? Will he play a corner OF position next season? Will his payroll demands be in our wheelhouse?

Interesting question: who in the MLB (besides maybe the O's) would permit Jones to play CF past this season?  I guess a team with a completely bare cupboard at OF would be willing.  But beyond that, I doubt a whole lot of other teams, especially contending teams, are going to be willing to accept his diminished defense at CF for any more than a few games per month.  

[FanSince88]

I would QO Jones, assuming he has a typical AJ season or better this year, and see where the chips fall.  Would be intriguing to see if he takes it.  Wouldn't be the end of the world if he did, or didn't.  

[Why Not?]

13 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

Question is does Dawson make the Hall without that age 32 season where he exploded at the plate.  Without a season like that where he totally goes off, AJ might come just short of Cooperstown induction, despite his underrated consistency.  Also Dawson was a much more prolific base stealer than Jones ever was.  

I think the big season helped a LOT. Dawson was rookie of the year and finished second in the MVP voting twice before that monster year. But he wound up a borderline HOF pick anyway. 

[Redskins Rick]

12 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

I would QO Jones, assuming he has a typical AJ season or better this year, and see where the chips fall.  Would be intriguing to see if he takes it.  Wouldn't be the end of the world if he did, or didn't.  

AJ is more about winning, and less about the money.

Old Roch article:

Quote

“The player is the one who wants to go out there and just play no matter what, and as you’ve seen me, I just want to be in the environment of winning,” he said. “The last five years have been good. Last year tailed off at the end, but the biggest thing for me is being in a winning environment. I know that’s Zach (Britton’s) goal, I know that’s (Brad) Brach’s goal and I know that’s Manny (Machado’s) goal. It’s not just about the money.

“The money is great. It’s phenomenal when you’re able to take care of your family and extended family and so on, but the individual and the competitiveness inside the individual wants to win and if I’m not in a winning environment, you could throw ... Well, you could throw a certain amount of money, but it would take a lot just to tell me that I’m going to lose. That’s not how it works for me.

“You can’t just say, ‘Here’s a lot of money just to lose.’ I’m not going to be selfish and be like, ‘Here, I’ll take all this money, but I know it’s going to debilitate every other area.’ That’s part of it also, understanding all the merits of this business.”

 

[spiritof66]

46 minutes ago, Frobby said:

While I don’t think he’ll get a king’s ransom, if he puts up his usual .280 with 25-30 homers and 80+ RBI, I think he’ll get a 3/$40 mm type deal.   Teams like consistency.   

And my point is that if he has that kind of value, why wouldn't he have that kind of value -- and more -- to the Orioles as a RF/post-Trumbo DH. He also would help maintain fan interest at a time where the team may need it badly, in a way that he wouldn't do elsewhere.  

I can see that Adam might want to sign with a contending team rather than go through a rebuild in Baltimore, but that's a different point. He might also want to be a near-career Orioles (after 73 games with the Mariners).

. 

[Frobby]

57 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

Question is does Dawson make the Hall without that age 32 season where he exploded at the plate.  Without a season like that where he totally goes off, AJ might come just short of Cooperstown induction, despite his underrated consistency.  Also Dawson was a much more prolific base stealer than Jones ever was.  

Dawson: 64.8 WAR (48.1 through age 31).

Jones: 32.2 WAR.

Adam isn’t going to sniff the Hall of Fame.    Very good player, though.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

And my point is that if he has that kind of value, why wouldn't he have that kind of value -- and more -- to the Orioles as a RF/post-Trumbo DH. He also would help maintain fan interest at a time where the team may need it badly, in a way that he wouldn't do elsewhere. 

While I want to see how 2018 plays out, the reason not to sign Jones is Hays/Mullins/Stewart/Santander/Mancini, and possibly Mountcastle too.    We actually have a lot of good OF talent in the minors, and while it’s questionable whether any of them will amount to what Adam was in his prime, it’s quite likely they can come close to or exceed Adam’s value the next three years, and free up resources to be spent elsewhere where we have shortages of talent.    

[interloper]

His new stance is good. Hands are lower and launch angle will be higher. He'll get to balls a little quicker and hopefully it takes some strain off his shoulder when he swings, which has been a problem the last 3 years or so. 

I think he's primed for one of his best years if he stays healthy.

[spiritof66]

46 minutes ago, Frobby said:

While I want to see how 2018 plays out, the reason not to sign Jones is Hays/Mullins/Stewart/Santander/Mancini, and possibly Mountcastle too.    We actually have a lot of good OF talent in the minors, and while it’s questionable whether any of them will amount to what Adam was in his prime, it’s quite likely they can come close to or exceed Adam’s value the next three years, and free up resources to be spent elsewhere where we have shortages of talent.    

I see that, and that's why I would expect Adam, if re-signed for a couple of years, to do some DH duty while we get a better idea as to which of the young guys can hit ML pitching. The chance of more than two of those guys emerging as quality ML OFers in the next couple of years seems unlikely to me.

If I were answering my own question about why not to pursue Adam, at least part of the answer would be "Chris Davis.," in that (a) he pushes Mancini to the OF and (b) he represents a huge amount of overspent $$ deployed to retain a guy who -- and I have to strain to remember this - was a fan favorite at the time he signed. 

[blid]

12 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

Jones should be an Oriole next year, I hope in RF. He's got to be worth more to the Orioles than to any other team. 

I felt the same way about Markakis, but then Atlanta backed a truck full of money into his driveway.  Hopefully no team makes Jones a similarly extreme offer.