Keith Law hating on the Orioles big time.

[Arthur_Bryant]

I agree. Heck, we haven't even had a .500 season yet and I am practically sitting outside the gates as I type this. The team showed a willingness to do what it takes to improve and compete. That's a great start.

But just a start. I am not convinced that having the O's simmer around .500 will generate enthusiasm through the second half of the season, or translate into enough of a gate increase to justify adding further to payroll next year. And then whatever success they have on the field this year has to be sustained and built on for 2012 and beyond. Otherwise it's just another letdown and broken promise, as the fans see it.

Something big needs to come of this. Otherwise, this is just another version of the impatient striving-for-mediocrity exercise that the Orioles practiced too often in the past decade plus.

I would much rather see the resources put into areas that can actually sustain success some day.

(BTW I love the Reynolds acquisition. I think Law is way off base with his observations there).

[TGO]

I think most of the people here just have a fundamental disagreement with Law. If you read the piece it's clear he believes three things:

1. The concept of "protecting" young players with veterans is nonsense and outdated.

2. You don't have to walk before you can crawl. You can go from 60 wins to 90 without winning 81 first.

3. Any dollar spent on free agents is a dollar that cannot be spent on amateurs.

Most of you disagree with two or all three of these. Personally, I am agnostic on 1 and 2. I think it can go either way and it really depends on the team, the manager, and a lot of other things.

But number 3 is absolutely, unequivocally correct.

[hoosiers]

3. Any dollar spent on free agents is a dollar that cannot be spent on amateurs.

But number 3 is absolutely, unequivocally correct.

Not so fast.

What happens when a team signs Matt Capps for $3.5M in a season where he produces 1.8 WAR and is traded for a top 5 organizational prospect?

Sometimes, a signed free agent can generate a disproportional value prospect-wise.

[Sports Guy]

Not so fast.

What happens when a team signs Matt Capps for $3.5M in a season where he produces 1.8 WAR and is traded for a top 5 organizational prospect?

Sometimes, a signed free agent can generate a disproportional value prospect-wise.

Yes, that sometime can happen.

But you know when it can also happen? When you just spend the money on the amateur talent to begin with..and when you do that, you are guaranteed to get that young talent.

[hoosiers]

Yes, that sometime can happen.

But you know when it can also happen? When you just spend the money on the amateur talent to begin with..and when you do that, you are guaranteed to get that young talent.

You mean like $4M for Ynoa?

The "traded for" talent is usually in the upper minors or has established himself as a future star and has significantly more worth than someone "just signed" - particularly internationally.

Anyway, I was just pointing out that $ spent on free agents could be converted - sometimes in a powerful way - into prospects.

[Stotle]

You mean like $4M for Ynoa?

Or $1.65 million for Jesus Montero.

Or $3 million for Gary Sanchez

Or $6.25 million for Jose Iglesias

Or $450 thousand for Manny Banuelos

The "traded for" talent is usually in the upper minors or has established himself as a future star and has significantly more worth than someone "just signed" - particularly internationally.

Like Josh Bell - established future star.

[Scrat1]

Like Josh Bell - established future star.

Man, Bell's floundering really was a kick straight to the groin. Why is it that so many of our players struggle when they hit the big time? I don't mean that rhetorically. Is it poor scouting? Is it player development? Poor coaching at the big league level? Just plain bad luck? All of the above?

Bergesen and Reimold are the only two players I can think of that had success right out of the gate.

[Dagger420]

Man, Bell's floundering really was a kick straight to the groin. Why is it that so many of our players struggle when they hit the big time? I don't mean that rhetorically. Is it poor scouting? Is it player development? Poor coaching at the big league level? Just plain bad luck? All of the above?

Bergesen and Reimold are the only two players I can think of that had success right out of the gate.

In all fairness I don't think Bell was anywhere near ready to begin with. The only reason he came in was because of necessity after Tejada was traded.

I think our player development has been lack luster though too.

[hoosiers]

Or $1.65 million for Jesus Montero.

Or $3 million for Gary Sanchez

Or $6.25 million for Jose Iglesias

Or $450 thousand for Manny Banuelos

Like Josh Bell - established future star.

Again, I was making a point that $ put into free agents can be converted to high quality prospects. Are you disputing that?

Or do you want to engage in an entirely separate discussion regarding the value of prospects - international and amateur - that is not even relevant to this discussion? Josh Bell was not acquired from a free agent signing.

[Stotle]

Again, I was making a point that $ put into free agents can be converted to high quality prospects. Are you disputing that?

Or do you want to engage in an entirely separate discussion regarding the value of prospects - international and amateur - that is not even relevant to this discussion? Josh Bell was not acquired from a free agent signing.

No, Bell was one of the high quality prospects acquired by trade -- your central point, right? How is it a separate discussion? I simply point out that there is risk in both avenues, and Ynoa is not necessarily representative of an "amateur spend". There are plenty of successes and failures on all fronts in player acquestion. I would say that the majority of older FA signings and FA RP signings do not end up in flipping for significant talent, though. It could happen, but I think it's unlikely BAL sees Vlad/Gregg/Gonzalez/etc. netting them a "high quality" prospect at the deadline.

[Stotle]

Man, Bell's floundering really was a kick straight to the groin. Why is it that so many of our players struggle when they hit the big time? I don't mean that rhetorically. Is it poor scouting? Is it player development? Poor coaching at the big league level? Just plain bad luck? All of the above?

Bergesen and Reimold are the only two players I can think of that had success right out of the gate.

Bell can still right the ship. He was a good get for Sherrill. But he also goes to show you that no matter how much amateur players are labeled a "crap shoot", a prospect acquired in trade isn't without risk either.

[Fan4Life]

Or $1.65 million for Jesus Montero.

Or $3 million for Gary Sanchez

Or $6.25 million for Jose Iglesias

Or $450 thousand for Manny Banuelos

Like Josh Bell - established future star.

Despite your evidence here, I agree with Hoosiers. Generally you'll have a higher hit rate when trading for established MiL players as opposed to what you get in the draft, with the exception of perhaps the top 5-ish picks in the first round.

[Sports Guy]

Again, I was making a point that $ put into free agents can be converted to high quality prospects. Are you disputing that?

Or do you want to engage in an entirely separate discussion regarding the value of prospects - international and amateur - that is not even relevant to this discussion? Josh Bell was not acquired from a free agent signing.

No one would dispute that it is possible. Of course, many things have to go right for that to happen, namely AM actually being willing to pull the trigger..something he hasn't done enough.

However, I would rather spend 8 million on Int'l FAs than Vlad..That way, you know for a fact that you are getting some potential high ceiling prospects and not waiting for a perfect storm to happen.

[Fan4Life]

No one would dispute that it is possible. Of course, many things have to go right for that to happen, namely AM actually being willing to pull the trigger..something he hasn't done enough.

However, I would rather spend 8 million on Int'l FAs than Vlad..That way, you know for a fact that you are getting some potential high ceiling prospects and not waiting for a perfect storm to happen.

You don't think Vlad will contribute much this season or you just don't like the paycheck he'll get for that production?

[Sports Guy]

You don't think Vlad will contribute much this season or you just don't like the paycheck he'll get for that production?

I wouldn't have signed Vlad for many reasons but as I have said, I do recognize the potential upside in his signing. End of the day, I don't have a huge problem with it but its not something I would do.