Johnson is untouchable? O's refused to talk trade with several teams

[Frobby]

But that was mainly Chris Ray and Baez.

Walker and Bradford actually performed decently in 2007. Flanagan was already gone when Walker self-destructed in 2008 after Perlozzo and Trembley abused him the year before. Bradford actually outperformed his contract in 2007, putting up a fWAR of 1.3.

Baez was only the real disaster of those signings.

Aubrey Huff's failure was pretty poor. Not to mention the signings of Kevin Millar and regression of Ramon Hernandez, Miguel Tejada and Melvin Mora.

The offense or lack there of magnified the bullpen issues.

No real disagreement with your description of the 2007 bullpen. However, even though Bradford had a respectable 3.76 ERA when Perlozzo was fired, he was 0-4 with a blown save thrown in, with three of the losses and the blown save all coming within 15 days prior to Perlozzo and Flanagan getting the axe. Walker also blew a save during that same stretch.

[Scrat1]

He traded Hernandez and then replaced him with Gregg.

I think it's a little odd how you're criticizing MacPhail for signing Gregg, despite the fact that Buck was very much part of the decision to bring him in, and simultaneously claiming Buck would be a good GM, because he has Angelos' ear or whatever. If that's not outright hypocrisy, it's pretty damn close.

[PrivateO]

The Orioles need to follow in the footsteps of the Rays when it comes to the formation of the bullpen (If you've read "The Extra 2%", you definitely know what I'm talking about.

The fact of the matter is very few (literally, less than a handful) of players in this organization should be considered untouchable. Jim Johnson, along with Koji, Hardy, and Guthrie are the teams' most valuable trade pieces. Like SG and JTrea said, this guy has been a total workhorse this year and odds are his success will not be the same in the 2nd half as it was in the 1st. I understand the thought that maybe Johnson could provide a relief for the rotation, but at best, he's probably a #3. He loses most of his value when he's not in the bullpen.

[DrungoHazewood]

But that was mainly Chris Ray and Baez.

Walker and Bradford actually performed decently in 2007. Flanagan was already gone when Walker self-destructed in 2008 after Perlozzo and Trembley abused him the year before. Bradford actually outperformed his contract in 2007, putting up a fWAR of 1.3.

Baez was only the real disaster of those signings as Walker probably would have been fine if he hadn't been abused as he was a LOOGY that they tried to make a fireman.

All of them were poor risks, only Bradford returned anything like decent value. Walker signed a three year deal and imploded after year one, providing less than a win of value for $12M. Baez was paid, what, $15M? for his replacement-level services.

The idea that the offense magnified the bullpen issues is laughable. The 2007 Orioles' spent lavishly on three relief pitchers, and ended up with a bullpen ERA of 5.75(!!). Which was one of the very worst bullpen ERAs in history, far below replacement level, and would have been even more scrutinized if not for the 2007 Rays' even worse implosion. It's not a stretch to say that pen cost the O's 15 wins compared to an average bullpen. The 756 runs the offense scored could certainly have supported a .500 record, or thereabouts, with a league-average pen. 9th in offense, 13th in bullpen ERA, and much farther from average/good in the pen than with the bat.

[CA-ORIOLE]

From Britt's article today:

And it sounds like we are in the market for pitching.

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110713&content_id=21776528&vkey=news_bal&c_id=bal

Not the biggest AM fan, but I did not get the indication where AM said anyone was untouchable. In this case I'm fine with moving Johnson to the rotation and disagree with the some others that he can't be an effective starter.

[JTrea81]

I think it's a little odd how you're criticizing MacPhail for signing Gregg, despite the fact that Buck was very much part of the decision to bring him in, and simultaneously claiming Buck would be a good GM, because he has Angelos' ear or whatever. If that's not outright hypocrisy, it's pretty damn close.

Oh I'm sure Buck wants to keep JJ. However it's ultimately MacPhail's call and it's up to him to do what is best for the team.

[El Gordo]

My question is, if he wants to add vet SP to the rotation, but doesn't want to trade anyone how does he figure to do it. What Vet SP salary dumps are here out there that are significantly better than the likes of Simon and Jaku?

[CA-ORIOLE]

My question is, if he wants to add vet SP to the rotation, but doesn't want to trade anyone how does he figure to do it. What Vet SP salary dumps are here out there that are significantly better than the likes of Simon and Jaku?

I re-read the article and it didn't say they were looking for "vet" pitching. My assumption is they are looking for more ML ready arms.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Why don't they try Johnson as a starter this year then if they are not going to trade him

.

Different training regimen and not fair to Johnson at this point.

the orioles just have Tillman pitch in the big leagues to see what he has for once and for all. Maybe we should do that, hell why you are at it call up Troy Patton, he is 4-1 with a 1.91 era.

Disagree that Tillman will amount to anything without fixing some of his problems in the minors first. Patton looks like a marginal ML reliever.

[El Gordo]

I re-read the article and it didn't say they were looking for "vet" pitching. My assumption is they are looking for more ML ready arms.

How would they get a ML ready SP prospect without giving up anything of value. All he seems willing to trade is Vlad, DLee and Gonzo.

[LookinUp]

Why do I get the feeling that Buck has convinced ownership to go after Fielder and a SP next year, hope Roberts is healthy, re-sign Hardy and make a run with this group?

[El Gordo]

Why do I get the feeling that Buck has convinced ownership to go after Fielder and a SP next year, hope Roberts is healthy, re-sign Hardy and make a run with this group?

Maybe the same reason I get that feeling too?

[CA-ORIOLE]

How would they get a ML ready SP prospect without giving up anything of value. All he seems willing to trade is Vlad, DLee and Gonzo.

I didn't get that impression at all, at least not from AM's generic comments. AM is generally pretty mum about these things. I think there was a "we'll look at anything that makes sense for the club" type comment in there. The author did mention they'd probably want an arm back in a Guthrie deal.

[El Gordo]

I didn't get that impression at all, at least not from AM's generic comments. AM is generally prett mum about these things. I think there was a "we'll look at anything that makes sense for the club" type comment in there. The author did mention they'd probably want an arm back in a Guthrie deal.

In regards to adding pitching he said this: ""It's definitely something we are looking at to try to augment," said president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail, who acknowledged that given the state of the organization's farm system, the Orioles' best bet is likely to fill the void through external options."

If that doesn't idicate he wants to trade for SP, what do you think it indicates? He is either going to go for vet SP salary dumps, or trade value, like Reynolds, Hardy, Jones, etc. for ML SP prospects.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I don't necessarily agree with this, only because Johnson has developed an effective changeup over the past 3 years. He's a legitimate 3 pitch guy.

It remains to be seen whether his arm can sustain 100 pitches or not and what it'll do to his velocity. But I think he's got the stuff.

Yeah, agree about the changeup. Along with command, a good sinkerball and his ability to get LH hitters out. It's a decent starting point to put him in the starter role.