Johnson is untouchable? O's refused to talk trade with several teams

[Stotle]

Yeah, agree about the changeup. Along with command, a good sinkerball and his ability to get LH hitters out. It's a decent starting point to put him in the starter role.

It's all irrelevent if he doesn't have the ability to maintain mechanics/stuff through six innings and multiple times through a lineup.

Of course, that was also the concern with CJ Wilson (though I'd argue Wilson is an exception to the general rule).

[CA-ORIOLE]

In regards to adding pitching he said this: ""It's definitely something we are looking at to try to augment," said president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail, who acknowledged that given the state of the organization's farm system, the Orioles' best bet is likely to fill the void through external options."

If that doesn't idicate he wants to trade for SP, what do you think it indicates? He is either going to go for vet SP salary dumps, or trade value, like Reynolds, Hardy, Jones, etc. for ML SP prospects.

First of all, you initially said "vet" SP. The article states they are looking to augment "pitching". Since our internal sources are mostly beaten up and we have little in the pipeline, the fact they are looking at external sources makes sense to me. It doesn't specifically state they are look for ML ready pitching but that would be my logical assumption. I think it's a bettter assumption than "Vet Starters". But yeah, it's possible you could be right that they may be looking at both.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It's all irrelevent if he doesn't have the ability to maintain mechanics/stuff through six innings and multiple times through a lineup.

Of course, that was also the concern with CJ Wilson (though I'd argue Wilson is an exception to the general rule).

Well, he does come in occasionally and seam out of whack. I was thinking that might improve as a starter. He's another tall guy I guess and that's always a concern.

[Stotle]

Well, he does come in occasionally and seam out of whack. I was thinking that might improve as a starter. He's another tall guy I guess and that's always a concern.

Personally I don't see him holding it together over six innings. More problematic, to me, is even if things work out there is a high likelihood that we'll see a sketchy transitional period, with inconsistent performance. Essentially, Baltimore is punting on a spot in the rotation next year (most likely) in order to see if Johnson can be a solution there. But he'll be reaching FA soon, so who really cares if he can start for you for two seasons?

It just seems like an odd decision. Long shot to work out, and you could proably move him for a young player with similar upside in the rotation.

[ChaosLex]

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oQn2Rdl_CX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

One step forward and two step back

Nobody gets too far like that

One step forward and two steps back

This kind of dance can never last

[Pickles]

I think the idea that Johnson CAN'T start is utter silliness. We get people providing splits from the ONE ML start he's had in his career as proof. That's beyond silly.

So many here- rightfully imo- seem to think Jim Palmer knows quite a bit about pitching. Well, he's been saying for years JJ has the ability to start in this league. Personally, I think he's right.

And I would like to point out the first place Texas Rangers have TWO ALL-STAR starting pitchers that they converted from thier pen in the rotation. So it's certainly not unprecedented.

That said, JJ shouldn't be classified as "untouchable." But if they want to give him a chance to start, it's certainly not as idiotic as some people want to make it out to be.

[MikeAD]

I think the idea that Johnson CAN'T start is utter silliness. We get people providing splits from the ONE ML start he's had in his career as proof. That's beyond silly.

So many here- rightfully imo- seem to think Jim Palmer knows quite a bit about pitching. Well, he's been saying for years JJ has the ability to start in this league. Personally, I think he's right.

And I would like to point out the first place Texas Rangers have TWO ALL-STAR starting pitchers that they converted from thier pen in the rotation. So it's certainly not unprecedented.

That said, JJ shouldn't be classified as "untouchable." But if they want to give him a chance to start, it's certainly not as idiotic as some people want to make it out to be.

What pitches is he going to use to get through the lineup 3 times in a game? Are they going to teach him 1 or 2 new pitches?

[Pickles]

What pitches is he going to use to get through the lineup 3 times in a game? Are they going to teach him 1 or 2 new pitches?

He has as many pitches as Erik Bedard did- or 50% of the starters in this league. It isn't a number of pitches issue.

[Frobby]

Personally I don't see him holding it together over six innings. More problematic, to me, is even if things work out there is a high likelihood that we'll see a sketchy transitional period, with inconsistent performance. Essentially, Baltimore is punting on a spot in the rotation next year (most likely) in order to see if Johnson can be a solution there. But he'll be reaching FA soon, so who really cares if he can start for you for two seasons?

It just seems like an odd decision. Long shot to work out, and you could proably move him for a young player with similar upside in the rotation.

I think we decided, a few weeks back, that JJ is still three years away from free agency, if that matters in the calculus here. He will have 3.168 years of service time at the end of this year (assuming he remains in the majors all year, which seems a safe assumption).

I don't know if he could be a starter or not, but he certainly has three good big league pitches, and he was a starter in the minors for a long time.

[El Gordo]

First of all, you initially said "vet" SP. The article states they are looking to augment "pitching". Since our internal sources are mostly beaten up and we have little in the pipeline, the fact they are looking at external sources makes sense to me. It doesn't specifically state they are look for ML ready pitching but that would be my logical assumption. I think it's a bettter assumption than "Vet Starters". But yeah, it's possible you could be right that they may be looking at both.

This is ridiculous nit picking. Obviously they need SP, the article was talking about the tattered starting rotation. There was no mention of seeking relievers. Why would they seek more AAAA SP fodder, they have plenty of that? Well, if they don't want to trade the likes of Hardy, Jones, Reynolds, etc., then the only other option I can see is salary dump vets. Are there salary dump rookies?

[TGO]

My guess is they are looking at a couple types of pitchers:

-- salary dumps

-- guys similar to Guthrie when we picked him up (talented but struggling and out of options)

[El Gordo]

My guess is they are looking at a couple types of pitchers:

-- salary dumps

-- guys similar to Guthrie when we picked him up (talented but struggling and out of options)

Any idea who some of those guys might be?

[TGO]

Any idea who some of those guys might be?

Not a clue at the moment. But my guess is category 2 guys are more rare this time of year than at the end of ST.

EDIT: Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster come to mind in the salary dump category. I'm not really interested in either of them for what they're owed. Maybe Carlos Zambrano, too.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Personally I don't see him holding it together over six innings. More problematic, to me, is even if things work out there is a high likelihood that we'll see a sketchy transitional period, with inconsistent performance. Essentially, Baltimore is punting on a spot in the rotation next year (most likely) in order to see if Johnson can be a solution there. But he'll be reaching FA soon, so who really cares if he can start for you for two seasons?

It just seems like an odd decision. Long shot to work out, and you could proably move him for a young player with similar upside in the rotation.

Personally I'm more comfortable with Johnson than BB or Tillman as a starter. Obviously your observations are going to be well respected and noted. Assuming we're trading Guthrie (which I think we will) and considering our current circumstances with the young starters, I don't see a lot of options to fill five rotation spots next year. A vet is going to be more expensive and I doubt you have any more certainty as far as performance goes. If Johnson did pan out his value improves over that of a reliever imo. Even as a FA, he eventually gives us value. Not like we couldn't look to extend him at some point either. I see a little more upside than downside on this one. That's basically it. Another young guy with similar upside as a starter doesn't thrill me. JJ's at least a known quantity to go back to the pen. I've always liked the idea of young starters starting out of the BP and I'd guess Johnson has a better chance at succeeding now than he did 3 years ago. Also, I think some pitchers tend to peak right about JJ's age/experience

[The Maestro]

I sure hope this is posturing by AM, maybe he has a couple teams on the hook and is waiting out a better offer. One can only hope this is the case, or else this deadline is gonna be mighty disappointing for a lot of us.