I miss MacPhail

[JTrea81]

Trea, I have to wonder if MacPhail would have pulled the trigger on the Jones deal that would have sent him to ATL for Jurrjens, Prado, and a prospect?

That deal was never on the table.

It's what the Orioles countered with after Atlanta expressed interest in Jones, and it was two prospects not just one. The Braves never countered and just ended talks.

You may not be able to get all that for Jones. His value is less than people think.

[.500_OR_BETTER]

Trea, I have to wonder if MacPhail would have pulled the trigger on the Jones deal that would have sent him to ATL for Jurrjens, Prado, and a prospect?

I doubt it especially after the Gonzo deal.

[weams]

I doubt it especially after the Gonzo deal.

What was the Gonzo deal again?

[DrungoHazewood]

What was the Gonzo deal again?

I assume he's talking about acquiring a pitcher the Braves apparently no longer want?

[.500_OR_BETTER]

What was the Gonzo deal again?

I assume he's talking about acquiring a pitcher the Braves apparently no longer want?

I meant ordeal. He was damanged goods.

[atomic]

Does anyone really know what AM would have done this off season? I definitely don't think we'd see the changes in the scouting department. Whether those changes are good or bad remain to be seen. As far as FA signings and trades I just can't imagine a whole lot more being done so far. And just because someone might have done more doesn't mean it necessarily would have been a good thing.

AM brought in a bunch of scouts in his time here. They just didn't get as much notice because he traded players and stuff during the offseason. As for International signings he has gotten one player just like AM got Koji. He may have hired some great scouts but I worry when several of his hires are well into their 70's.

So far he has done nothing that can be judged....hopefully we will get Fielder and a pitcher and he is just using awesome bargaining skills on Boras as I type.

[Tony-OH]

I didn't realize the off season is over before New Years. MacPhail made the Bedard trade on February 8, 2008.

Duquette has inspired the first real change in how the Orioles do business internally with scouting and development. It remains to be seen whether Duquette is better or worse than MacPhail when it comes to results, but considering MacPahil couldn't get us out of last place I don't see how anyone can miss him.

[Fan4Life]

I didn't realize the off season is over before New Years. MacPhail made the Bedard trade on February 8, 2008.

I think what they miss is something to talk about.... good , bad or otherwise. Ravens play in 3 days... that should help some.

[Bradysburns]

I think your right about the international presence, but I am getting very concerned about the here and now. The Nationals could make the Orioles pretty irrelevant soon, and that will have implications very far out into the future. My biggest concern about the team I have supported entirely over the last 40 years, is that they may be quickly losing their grip on their own audience. IMO, a poor attempt to improve this Team over this offseason may leave OPACY with a lot of empty seats. And that will not bode well for the future.

Yaaahhhhh think? This was a newsworthy observation 10 seasons ago.

In my opinion, wanting AM back is just ludicrous. He had nearly five years to work his magic. And if this team sucks right now, it's his fault - not DD's. For Pete's sake, have some perspective.

DD might prove horrible. I have no idea. I will judge him on the team's onfield record over the next few seasons. If the team does not improve its record, I will consider him a failure. If it does, I will maintain hope that he's the right man.

Right now he is doing the unsexy "spadework" of reworking the guts of the organization, starting with scouting, and the financial and statistical-analysis sides. Considering the nature of this organization and its owner (and strong-willed manager), that must be a very difficult and sensitive assignment. But this organizational restructuring is what I have to believe will lead to long-term success. Not another middling FA signing, or "push" trade. AM received a 4- to 5-year grace period from most of us. I think DD probably deserves at least one full offseason before being written off.

[Going Underground]

Oh really? :laughlol:

I think we're already in "last one out get the lights" territory. We're always going to have a high audience from AL East road teams, so there's gonna be SOMEONE in the stadium... and it is a nice stadium. Attendance shouldn't plummet too much even if the team keeps losing. Not to mention J.J. Hardy Bobblehead Night should draw a huge crowd.

:laughlol:

The attendance has already plummetted. Last year the O's were fifth lowest in attendance. This year without something it could be worse. Second lowest? Without the 300,000 extra fans from the Yanks and Sox the attendance would be worse. Home and away,the O's just don't draw.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/allAvg

[Scrat1]

I was a pretty big MacPhail supporter, and didn't want to see him go. The vast majority of his moves struck me as smart, even if the results never came. (Remember the end of the 2011 offseason: sweater vest avatars, "Beware the sweater vest," etc.?) However, as others have said, DD does appear to have shaken things up to some degree in the international markets and maybe we'll see some improvement in scouting/player development, all of which were weaknesses under MacPhail's tenure.

I will miss MacPhail's trading acumen and if we're going to trade off assets such as Jones and Guthrie, there's no other person I would have wanted. This is mostly speculation, but I believe with the failure of the 2011 season MacPhail recognized the need for at least a partial rebuild. Angelos, of course, would not grant this, hence their parting ways. (I think this is also why LaCava chose to stay with Toronto.)

Overall, I would prefer MacPhail to DD, but as others have said, it's still very early in the offseason and DD may prove to be a wily GM. He's made some changes that will hopefully yield results, but I haven't been impressed with some of the things he's said. Sounds a lot like more fence-riding. Despite this, as everyone knows, the gap between what a GM says and what he does is often wide and DD deserves our patience. If he moves Jones for a strong package, I'll be fully on board.

[atomic]

I will miss MacPhail's trading acumen and if we're going to trade off assets such as Jones and Guthrie, there's no other person I would have wanted. This is mostly speculation, but I believe with the failure of the 2011 season MacPhail recognized the need for at least a partial rebuild. Angelos, of course, would not grant this, hence their parting ways. (I think this is also why LaCava chose to stay with Toronto.)

MacPhail did a rebuild when he got here. You can't do another rebuild as a GM within 5 years with no signs of success inbetween.

I think Macphail trading ability is overrated. I think he should have gotten a lot more for Berdard at the time. And only Jones is left from that deal. Reynolds deal was a negative. Hardy was the one positive that I see. Well that and the Andino deal.

The farm system is pretty bare. So Macphail can't be judged positively there. I don't know if Dan will be better so I won't give him credit for changing things until I see some success.

DD doesn't have to do much to show improvement over AM. So the bar is low lets see if he can top it.

[weams]

MacPhail did a rebuild when he got here. You can't do another rebuild as a GM within 5 years with no signs of success inbetween.

I think Macphail trading ability is overrated. I think he should have gotten a lot more for Berdard at the time. And only Jones is left from that deal. Reynolds deal was a negative. Hardy was the one positive that I see. Well that and the Andino deal.

The farm system is pretty bare. So Macphail can't be judged positively there. I don't know if Dan will be better so I won't give him credit for changing things until I see some success.

DD doesn't have to do much to show improvement over AM. So the bar is low lets see if he can top it.

Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, Josh Bell, Steve Johnson.

Hardy was the steal of the century.

Reynolds has more value than David Hernandez on the trade market, and I am the world's biggest David Hernandez fan.

Hayden is out of baseball and Robert Andino is the Boston Strangler.

[Tony-OH]

MacPhail did a rebuild when he got here. You can't do another rebuild as a GM within 5 years with no signs of success inbetween.

I think Macphail trading ability is overrated. I think he should have gotten a lot more for Berdard at the time. And only Jones is left from that deal. Reynolds deal was a negative. Hardy was the one positive that I see. Well that and the Andino deal.

The farm system is pretty bare. So Macphail can't be judged positively there. I don't know if Dan will be better so I won't give him credit for changing things until I see some success.

DD doesn't have to do much to show improvement over AM. So the bar is low lets see if he can top it.

You know, when you look at his trades you can clearly say the Orioles got the better end of the deal on most if not all. However, they never changed the Orioles fortunes so how much can you give him credit for trading when the team couldn't get out of last place?

Adam Jones was the only "prospect" he ever traded for that actually has been good with the Orioles despite trading Bedard and Tejada when they had value. He never moved Roberts, Guthrie, or even Markakis when they had value and he hung onto all of his "cavalry" when good scouting and development should have been able to determine who had value who should have been moved when their value was at their peaks.

MacPhail's major free agent signings were guys like Atkins, Gonzales, Gregg, Guerrero, and Lee.

In the end, every single full season MacPhail was in charge the Orioles finished dead last and never won more than 69 games. No, I don't miss MacPhail a bit and even if this offseason has been less than exciting when it comes to the major league roster, the internal changes Duquette has done in just his first few months is enough for me to think he just might have a chance to change this organizations fortunes.

[TonySoprano]

He never moved Roberts, Guthrie, or even Markakis when they had value and he hung onto all of his "cavalry" when good scouting and development should have been able to determine who had value who should have been moved when their value was at their peaks.

I don't think MacPhail or Duquette would obtain the permission to trade Markakis even if they want to do so.