Jai Miller - 4th Outfielder?

[weams]

I don't recall ARoid having much of a reputation for post season performanace, either. I picked the two because though ARoid has better career numbers per 162 G, I still would prefer Frank for an important AB.

During the 1979 World Series, Young interviewed Ray Poitevint, the Baltimore Orioles scout who had signed Eddie Murray six years earlier, and wrote about his protracted negotiations with Murray's family:

"He [Poitevint] offers $20,000. He gets cursed at. He leaves. He goes back. He is called a thief, kicked out. This was by Ed Murray's older brothers. They and Ed Murray's mother do all the talking. Ed Murray, 17, just sits there, listening, not saying a word. In the space of five weeks, Ray Poitevint pays 16 visits to the Murray household, and goes away empty."

The column further claimed that one of Murray's brothers tried to hit Poitevint with his car, and that Poitevint's associates was called an "Uncle Tom" (in fact, the associate was white).[13]

In the wake of the column, Murray adopted a general policy of not speaking to any sportswriters, a career-long stance which provoked a considerable amount of criticism from the sports media

Eddie had a poor series once.

[allstar1579]

Not to get off track, but the alternating of L/R hitters has always seemed like a questionable strategy to me. Why not load up your lineup with the best hitters against that SP and give yourself the best opportunity to score runs early and knock the SP out early. Worry about the situational relievers later.

Because if you get a SP who say is a LHP and he's REALLY tough on LHP (allows maybe a .150 baa) and you have 3 LH back to back, you might be setting yourself up to go 0-3 everytime they come up in the order,if you can bounce that around and put a RH in there that hits him better, and he gets on base it changes things a bit. Now you have to pitch from the stretch instead of the windup, you have to watch the runner, and it diverts his attention just a bit.

It's really just a philosophy in the end, and some managers might think more like you do, but I'm sure if you look at some players stats in hindsight, you'll see that they are not so much sheltered from situations like that, but they are put in situations that give them the best chance to win. I seem to remember during Raffy's first stint here even he would get sat against R. Johnson, because LH just did NOT hit well off of him. I think it worked fairly well too because we always knocked him around here.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I don't recall ARoid having much of a reputation for post season performanace, either. I picked the two because though ARoid has better career numbers per 162 G, I still would prefer Frank for an important AB.

I knew Aroid had a poor post season record. That's common knowledge, so I really wasn't sure what the point was. I don't completely discount the ability to perform in the clutch in short durations like the postseason though. Glancing at the career stats, Frank has an OPS+ of 154 compared to Aroids current 144. Aroid's will likely get worse. So I disagree that Aroid was a better hitter (at least relative to the level of pitching/competition). Different eras, but I'll go with Frank if those are my choices.

[El Gordo]

Frank hit a bunch of homers but yes, his BA and OBP in the postseason were pretty poor.

.238 .356 .532 .887 10 HR 19 RBI in 149 PA is poor?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Because if you get a SP who say is a LHP and he's REALLY tough on LHP (allows maybe a .150 baa) and you have 3 LH back to back, you might be setting yourself up to go 0-3 everytime they come up in the order,if you can bounce that around and put a RH in there that hits him better, and he gets on base it changes things a bit. Now you have to pitch from the stretch instead of the windup, you have to watch the runner, and it diverts his attention just a bit.

It's really just a philosophy in the end, and some managers might think more like you do, but I'm sure if you look at some players stats in hindsight, you'll see that they are not so much sheltered from situations like that, but they are put in situations that give them the best chance to win. I seem to remember during Raffy's first stint here even he would get sat against R. Johnson, because LH just did NOT hit well off of him. I think it worked fairly well too because we always knocked him around here.

Well if the SP is a LHP, you likely won't have 3 susceptible LHBs at the top of the linuep. You would have them at the bottom and or/platoon with a RH batter who might hit the LHP better. Why not stack your lineup at the top with the best possible hitters against that particular starting pitcher (maybe I wasn't clear about that) and maximize your opportunity to score runs early. If you can do that and alterante L/R batters then fine, but I wouldn't be overly concerned about it. Personally, I think this is stuff that makes the manager look like he's adding some value but likely really isn't. I have not seen a study on this though.

[TGO]

I don't recall ARoid having much of a reputation for post season performanace, either. I picked the two because though ARoid has better career numbers per 162 G, I still would prefer Frank for an important AB. BTW Frank and ARoid have virtually the same post season numbers. Frank .887 OPS. ARoid .844. In fewer PA Frank has more HR and RBI's.....:scratchchinhmm:

Per PA, yes, Frank has more HR. But ARod has more RBI/PA and more of both total HR and RBI. 13-10 HRs and 41-19 RBI.

I think maybe you looked at outdated numbers or the wrong row.

[El Gordo]

I knew Aroid had a poor post season record. That's common knowledge, so I really wasn't sure what the point was. I don't completely discount the ability to perform in the clutch in short durations like the postseason though. Glancing at the career stats, Frank has an OPS+ of 154 compared to Aroids current 144. Aroid's will likely get worse. So I disagree that Aroid was a better hitter (at least relative to the level of pitching/competition). Different eras, but I'll go with I'll go with Frank if those are my choices.

ARoid's post season isn't poor. As I pointed out he is .884 OPS to Frank's' .887.The question is they are percieved as two different types of players with similar career numbers.

[TGO]

.238 .356 .532 .887 10 HR 19 RBI in 149 PA is poor?

.356 is better than average, certainly, but not Frank's usual .390 (and his prime he was usually over .400).

.238 BA is poor. I only point it out because the scenario you crafted first and foremost demands a base hit to score the tying run (though an XBH to win would be even better, obviously).

[El Gordo]

Per PA, yes, Frank has more HR. But ARod has more RBI/PA and more of both total HR and RBI. 13-10 HRs and 41-19 RBI.

I think maybe you looked at outdated numbers or the wrong row.

That's the point though. Fine, nit pick about total if you want, I did mistate them, but who do you want hitting in a game situation Franlk or ARoid?

[CA-ORIOLE]

ARoid's post season isn't poor. As I pointed out he is .884 OPS to Frank's' .887.The question is they are percieved as two different types of players with similar career numbers.

Yeah you're right. Aroids post season are numbers are decent. He certainly is by "reputation" poor though. I thought Frank was similarly tainted by having a poor series two, but overall they are both pretty good.

edit: I think you must have added the OPS numbers because I didn't see them the frst time.

[El Gordo]

Yeah you're right. Aroids post season are numbers are decent. He certainly is by "reputation" poor though. I thought Frank was similarly tainted by having a poor series two, but overall they are both pretty good.

edit: I think you must have added the OPS numbers because I didn't see them the frst time.

But I think most would want Frank hitting in a game situation over ARoid, and they would be right IMO. Frank was a gamer who played team baseball and had consistently good AB. ARoid put up his numbers mostly on losing teams, and was percieved as a guy who played for himself, and his numbers. The numbers say it makes little difference who you would bat in a game situation, but my gut says it's Frank, and I bet most would agree.

[mikegallo]

But I think most would want Frank hitting in a game situation over ARoid, and they would be right IMO. Frank was a gamer who played team baseball and had consistently good AB. ARoid put up his numbers mostly on losing teams, and was percieved as a guy who played for himself, and his numbers. The numbers say it makes little difference who you would bat in a game situation, but my gut says it's Frank, and I bet most would agree.

BRoid or Aroid, which would you rather have hitting 9th inning two outs 2011 O's versus Sox's last game of season?

[Il BuonO]

Can we put it to bed now with his two SO's today, giving him more than half the amount of his AB's, that he is NOT a viable option as fourth outfielder?

[Frobby]

Can we put it to bed now with his two SO's today, giving him more than half the amount of his AB's, that he is NOT a viable option as fourth outfielder?

I seriously doubt he'll make the team, but I wouldn't say it's over at this point.

I've got to say, a lineup with Davis, Reynolds, Betemit, Miller and Jones would be just unbelievably whiff-prone. Heck, Jones looks like Vlad compared to the other four.

[MarylandAaron]

Can we put it to bed now with his two SO's today, giving him more than half the amount of his AB's, that he is NOT a viable option as fourth outfielder?

Well, he was never going to be the 4th outfielder because Endy Chavez is here. If he made the roster, it would be as a 5th outfielder. Plus, we knew he was going to strike out alot based on his track record. He's getting a long look this spring to see what else he can do for us, specifically his power and defense. For the record, I'm not a big Miller fan myself, and don't think he has a good shot to make the roster. But regardless one game is not going to change my opinion either way.